follow us on twitter
find us on facebook
add post Forum Index » Animals and Pets » Looking for People with a Story to Tell
28 Oct 2009
Angela
More than 50 messages post
Posts:89
Looking for People with a Story to Tell

Have you called base security or the Emergency Dispatch Cenetr for a pet related incident only to be given the run around or ignored? Things such as stray animals, pets on balconies, pets at the nex or school etc.

Then please let me know your story! I am currently in contact with base officals trying to work to better the policies and procedures for community benefit.

Please do not bash, factual information only. Your story as well as this thread will be sent to base officals so they can see the issues that we face. They need to be made aware of specific situations that are affecting the community.

Do not think this information will sit here for it will not. Let your voice be heard so we can make our community a better place for all to live.

Thank you.

28 Oct 2009
M.
More than 100 messages post
Posts:102
Question

I was wondering if you could include in your story the fact that the amount of animal fecal matter found on base is increasing very rapidly. This, unfortunately, is very hard to report, as people who choose not to clean up after their pets usually do so when they are not seen. This is a problem concerning this issue and, as such, it should be addressed.

Thank you in advance ~

29 Oct 2009
M.
More than 100 messages post
Posts:102
Dog feces

I just returned from school and found a very large sized amount of dog feces on the grass right outside the door of my building. I called in the complaint, but, of course, not much can be done about it. I was also informed that no one will be cleaning up 'unclaimed' fecal matter and, therefore, it will remain there until it naturally dissolves. This seriously irritates me, as I understand there is nothing that can be done unless a person is observed leaving the feces behind and not cleaning them up. However, since you have asked for opinions and are gathering stories to improve the situation, here is mine in the hope it can help.

29 Oct 2009
Lori
Posts:47
Complaining about strays

It irritates the heck out of me when I complain IN PERSON about stray dogs to security and their answer is "are they bothering anybody?" That's happened to me 3 times now. Does a stray have to bite someone's face off before it's considered to be bothering someone? Digging through the trash and leaving poop everywhere isn't enough?

29 Oct 2009
Angela
More than 50 messages post
Posts:89
Thank you

Yes, the dog feces issues is one that I am also concerned with as we were promised in may that there would be recepticals around the base to help with this problem. As it is a matter covered by the policy, it is one that needs to be addressed.

Lori, the refusal of security to actually answer the calls of the communtiy are a BIG issue being covered also. The Captain wants us to file Animal Incident Reports when we make complaints, but then security personnell refuses to right them, if they even go out to see the issue.

Also, if anyone has suggestions to improve the pet policy or its enfocement, please feel free to share!

Thank you.

29 Oct 2009
Mickaela
Posts:3
pets

The other day picking up my child from school, I had to walk around 2 different piles of dog poop.....on the school grounds. When I called about it, I was told to call the school. And the strays, there's a cat that wonders by my building, and in the past year has had 2 litters of kittens, which is just adding more to the stray problem. There's a dog over here that has to be left on it's balcony 24/7, and they live on the 3rd floor.........I could go on and on about all I see, but I will leave it at this!

29 Oct 2009
M.
More than 100 messages post
Posts:102
Angela

I honestly believe that the only reason why people do not clean up after their own pets is because they just do not want to, plain and simple. My husband runs a dog here on base and he brings several trash bags with him every single time, just in case he needs to go more than once. He cleans up every single poop, no matter how remote the area of the base is. One of my neighbors told me that she has seen many teenager who do not seem to be willing to pick up the poop. She even confronted one of them and yet this person still refused to clean up the feces. If that were to happen to me, I know I would most likely follow the person to the home and ask to speak with a parent. Should the parent also refuse to take responsibility, I would probably contact Security. If a person cannot take care of a dog, which includes picking up feces, not leaving the dog out on the balcony, etc., he/she should not own one.

As for improvements to the policy, I would like to see added HEFTY fines for ANY violation and not just a slap on the wrist.

Btw, are you part of any particular organization working on this issue? Just curious. Thank you for what you're doing.

29 Oct 2009
Lori
Posts:47
dogs on patios

Dogs being left on the patio reminded me of something else that happened last spring. I sat and listened one night to a high pitched yapping for 30 minutes before I went out to see where it was coming from. It was 4 buildings away where someone had left their dog on the patio. I called security to let them know and they said they would "check it out". 45 minutes later the yapping is still going on, so I called again and spoke to a different person. He even commented that he could hear it over the phone. 20 minutes later the yapping was still going on when I closed the door to go to bed. The next day I get a call from a guy at housing, saying there was no way I could've heard the dog from that far away and that when security went over they found nothing. I had to explain to him that I walked right over to the building to get the number and it was in fact THAT far away, and wondered to him that security didn't come out the whole hour and 35 minutes that it was going on.

I hope this will do any good. We were told that there's not much they can do, they have to call a civilian to come and catch the stray, and pay him extra if it's evenings or weekends, then he can't take it to the vet, can't drop it off outside the base, wah wah wah. And did the promised dog run ever happen? I haven't seen it

29 Oct 2009
Angela
More than 50 messages post
Posts:89
More Info

I am the current Vice President of the NFOA. Many of these issues have been brought to us in the last several months. Unfortunately we do not and can not enforce the pet policy on base. That was supposed to be the job of security.

But I have personally seen and have had stories like this, where the proper officials were called and nothing was done.

So I and other members of NFOA have taken a stand. I do think there is something the base can do to help the community with the issues that BASE OFFICALS have created.

I have proposed time and again that they not only create an Animal Control office to be the specific place of contact for these issues, but to impose fines for those that are caught breaking the policy.

There is NO reason why any animal should be left on a balcony for days with no food or water. Absolutely no excuse for allowing someone to starve their dog, or to tether their dogs in the heat with no water.

If they would work with the community instead of against it, then yes, we can find a soloution.

I have written letters to the SJA as well as the base captain. My next steps are getting the stories from you, this proves that I am not the only one witnessing these policies not being enforced, next I plan on contacting higher in the chain of command and I am currently in communication with the Humane Society to spread the word about this situation.

And Lori, the information you were given, they did not hire any company to come and pick up the strays. That was only a proposal (and yes I have a copy of it) and never went any further.

30 Oct 2009
Lori
Posts:47
Angela

It's not exactly a company, we were told it's an Italian who is from Public Works they call when only when someone insists.

I've also heard that the CO and XO were against the dogs coming on base, but that it was someone higher up (who doesn't have to live here with the mess) who demanded that the policy be changed immediately without any planning. Is that true?

30 Oct 2009
Jeannie
More than 50 messages post
Posts:59
stray cats and lonely dogs

I have been living in the navy lodge TLA apartments for 2 months. When we first moved in, we noticed a litter of kittens digging thru the recycling looking for food. They were emaciated and malnourished. We have been feeding them and now they are looking like healthy young cats. Of course, several other strays have found our "soup kitchen", and we are now feeding about 10 strays. However, being feral and very skittish, they are not easily adoptable. What happens when we leave? I feel awful that there are so many stray cats here, with no viable options for care. I wonder where they come from. Doesn't the base require pets to be spayed/neutered? The base should require cats to wear a collar with i.d. tag. This would make it easier to differientate the strays, and ensure cats are registered with the base. (including providing proof of spay/neuter). They make "break-away" collars now, for those concerned with cats getting stuck somewhere.

As for dogs, I have called the front desk several times to complain about wimpering dogs left for hours. Where are their owners? I'm sure these dogs are scared in their new surroundings, and not happy about being left alone. They yip and cry, and no one does a thing. If dogs are allowed in TLA, there should be enforcable rules that include being kicked out or required to kennel the pet if there are any complaints.

As a pet owner myself, I think the base made a huge mistake allowing pets without a set of enforcable rules. I also don't think it's realistic to allow dogs in the apartments. It's not fair to the dog, or the other tenants. A balcony is not viable replacement for a yard.

I find it hypocritical that the Navy is involved in humanitarian efforts all around the world, and can't seem to manage humane animal care on their own base. We need an animal control officer, stronger rules and policies with "teeth", a base vet who can help manage the strays, and a facility that can house strays available for adoption. Until the Navy quits "pooping in their own backyard" it will be very difficult to make any positive changes.

30 Oct 2009
Sean
Posts:8
i agree

My husband works security for the base and everyone there didnt want dogs on base they have to much to do w/o adding this to there plates. They arent here to be animal control they are here protect everyone. I hate the dogs being on base i smell poop all the time. The strays arent strays they are dogs people threw out cause they are lazy to find homes for when the leave thats it. its awful with in two weeks of the base policy change there were already a pack of them. they poop everywhere they destroy everything i want them gone

31 Oct 2009
Lori
Posts:47
So true, Sean

So many of the strays ARE pets that have been left behind by owners who, what? didn't realize that it would cost money to ship them back? Or just wanted a temporary pet? Our cat is a part of our family and we set aside money each month in the budget for her care, emergency and routine, shipping her back, and kennel costs, should we need them in transit. Some of these people seem to have just run out with no thought and no experience got a dog, just because they could. I also didn't agree with letting dog owners living out in town move on base. It should have been newcomers with dogs only, but that was most likely to fit in with their other policy of finally filling up the empty housing we were paying out the nose for every month.

Maybe a limit should be placed on how many there can be living on base at any given time, but since housing probably doesn't know how many there are now and it would take some effort on their part to find out, that won't happen.

And now the trouble is, even if you ever get "someone" to admit they were wrong to let dogs on base (don't hold your breath for that one), they can't just start kicking dog owners off base. They will have to establish a cut off date and allow no more until the last one PSC's in 2-3 years, long after all of us are gone.

31 Oct 2009
Jeannie
More than 50 messages post
Posts:59
security is not animal control

I agree with Sean; Security should not have to deal with animals. I want them focused on OUR security, not chasing strays or dealing with barking dogs.

31 Oct 2009
Sean
Posts:8
Pscing and leaveing pets

My cats have gone everywhere with me all around the world. We had three cats sadly we werent able to take all of them out here. The jet i was on only allowed two pets and shipping out here with them gets pricey when i budgeted in for the cats comming out here i was told we could get them all on the plane like 3 weeks befor we left the airline changed how many pets they allow on the express jets due to size weather and room. But i found a great home for him. I would never just throw them out and with Naples friends of animals and websites like this i feel there isnt much excuse not to get your pet somewhere safe and loving.

31 Oct 2009
Angela
More than 50 messages post
Posts:89
Animal Liasion Officers

At this point, there are hundreds of dogs living on base. There is no responsible way to "kick off" these dogs living on base. The local economy can not absorb this amount of dogs, shelters are overflowing as it is and the majority do not give proper care nor do adoptions.

There has been a proposal made to the base by select security personnel. This propsal allows for those who came up with it to become Animal Liason Officers. They would be your direct contact for any animal related incident and reports WOULD get made. How am I sure of this? Because these people actually care enough to see this gets done.

This would ensure that people would get their complaints heard and dealt with and that their would be a specific entity to contact and deal with these issues.

I can tell you that housing has no idea of how many animals anyone has. That would require them to go door to door and inspect everyone's home. Even then, its not fool proof.

The more support we can get to these kind of proposals, the more likely it will be to change.

31 Oct 2009
Jeannie
More than 50 messages post
Posts:59
mandatory licensing

Requiring a pet license for each cat or dog seems like a no-brainer to me. First, it will provide an easy way to identify a stray from a pet; it will generate funds for whatever position/dept. is formed to enforce or support animal control; it will require proof of spay/neutering of each animal in order to receive the license, reducing the number of puppies and kittens generated on-base. A person who wants to breed their dog/cat and refuses to spay/neuter would need to leave such animal under the care of someone in the States and not bring them to begin with.

I envision several phases of implementation:

1. mandatory licensing period to include window of time for spay/neutering

2. publication of policies and fines for existing pet owner and future PCSers.

3. enforcement of above

31 Oct 2009
christine
Posts:3
Dog park

Maybe instead of having all these parks for the kids that don't get used we should open up a little dog park. Make it more pet friendly area or even a fundraiser to put up dog bag stand and garbage cans around. I know I get irritated when I walk my dogs around and I see other dogs crap. I take the time to bring bags with me and I don't want others ruining the pet policy for me.

31 Oct 2009
andi
Posts:7
Here

My husband works in security. The only calls they can do anything about is dog bites they can not write any tickets for dog crap or the strays. Do no blame them. They are not the dog catcher. Blame the irresponsible owners for not taking the time to bend down and pick up the crap or keep the dogs on a leash. They are ruining it for every dog owner. What I was wondering when the policy was changed they were supposed to put up bags and cans for the dogs I see none of that. also a dog run. I agree that one of the parks the kids don't use could be a put to good use. There is a rumor going around of ending having dogs on base how are you going to do that when half of the base has dogs and they are trying to fill up housing?

--owner of two dogs

31 Oct 2009
Jaime
Posts:32
Poopy bags, security, wild dogs and requirements.

My wife purchased 700 poopy bags off Ebay for $20.00 including shipping. Flashlight to see the poop at night (Maltese poop is tiny). Kids take turns getting up early a.m. to walk puppy.

Security continue to be security, even in the states cops only come if they animal is dangerous or is in danger. Then they show up and call animal control. Poop is not a security job.

Dogs live outside in the wild.

Basics for a dog: Shade, water and food? Do they have these? If so, then they are ok. It is what they get at most doggy rescues in the states. Barking is annoying yes, but not a danger to the dog.

Requirement when you registrar your pet:

A plan to transport the pet (budget for funds) or proof of transfer of ownership using the chip as a tracker when you check out.

My 2 euro cents

01 Nov 2009
Jenn
Posts:2
Strays vs. Personal Pets

First off...strays are strays and that's that. Security cannot stop the animals from coming through the gates and the number of dogs I have seen roaming around are strays from town too. I'm sure people also dump their pets..etc..which is also wrong. If NFOA would work with Animals Without Limits I'm sure the situation with stray dogs would get handled better....both are good organizations and it would be nice to see NFOA pair up with AWL and find all these animals homes.

As far as a dog park on SS I think that would help contain a lot of things in one area. I understand Carney has a dog park..but that is simply too far to drive....whereas we can drive to SS (5 min) and not have to spend a whole day at carney.

Personally I don't think that dogs should be banned from SS housing and SS in general. I agree that people do need to be more responsible - and however that can be reinforced then by all means.

Just keep in mind that strays are strays though...I know everyone cannot do this but my husband and I occasionally see a stray/ or could be someone's pet running around at night..we will attempt to try and pick it up..to either find it's owner or a new home. If you see strays and can try to take care of it for a second let NFOA or AWL know about the dog because they would be able to help get the dog the attn it needs (AWL) and NFOA would be able to find it a home...

01 Nov 2009
Angela
More than 50 messages post
Posts:89
NFOA and AWL

Just to clarify: NFOA and AWL do work together, Unfortunately, neither organiation has a shelter or facility to keep animals at. Both organizations rely on volunteers to foster the strays. Without foster homes neither organization can take animals in to have them adopted out.

Each organization has the animal spayed/neutered, de-wormed, and gets the animal proper vet care, with vets that do care.

With base rules the way they are, there are very very few foster homes. If the base would work WITH NFOA and AWL then we could come up with a foster care program for the strays that run on base. NFOA has picked up several stray dogs on base that were NOT american pets. The stray cat population on base however, is quite largely a pet population gone feral.

Now, keep in mind that the base advertises not only in the Panarama but in the pet policy, that they will deal with the stray issue. When a cat was recently found to be microchipped and registered at the base vet, tell me why they nor security made an real effort to help find the owner? That is not only pet policy but Italian law.

The issue is that we have a pet policy that is not enforced. What good is mandatory licensing/registering and microchipping if the base refuses to enforce it?

There are ways to deal with these issues, but the base has to be willing to take those steps. I am trying to get the "powers that be" to see that there is a problem and that it can be dealt with.

02 Nov 2009
Lori
Posts:47
Pets left on the Balconies All Day

It is sad but true, people are leaving thier animals on their balconies all day and unfortunately the dogs are barking all day long and it is very annoying. What can we do to stop this craziness??

03 Nov 2009
Jeremy
Posts:19
Security...again

Please would you all stop throwing Security under the bus. WE ARE BASE SECURITY NOT ANIMAL CONTROL. It is not our job to go round up stray dogs and cats. It is not our job to respond to somebody that left dog poop outside your apartment 6 hours ago. We are here to ensure to you are protected from security threats. There is actually an Italian that "works" for PWD that is supposed to come out and catch stray when Security calls him, however when we do call he is usually not there or he comes out three hours later and the dog is gone. As far as micro chipped pets go, we in Security do not have a master list. That should be the base vets job to have that list when the pet is registered on base.

03 Nov 2009
Jeannie
More than 50 messages post
Posts:59
spaying kitties

Angela please contact me about trapping and spaying the feral kitties by TLA. M'lanna has my contact info.

thx!

03 Nov 2009
Angela
More than 50 messages post
Posts:89
Jeremy

The Pet Policy Specifically states "Upon discovering a nuisance, SECURITY will complete an Animal Incident Report (AIR)."

So yes, the base has made SECURTY the entity to write these reports. That means that if an animal is being neglected, abused, left on balconies, barking all day, biting, etc that security personnell are SUPPOSED to write and AIR. This is not happening. I personally have reported things to security, that IS within the scope of their job to do, that they told me they were not responsible for.

You dont need a master list of animals to enforce the majority of the issues. But when people call and tell you, that their are animals on the balcony with no food or water, that dogs are sitting at the NEX, that someone is starving their dog, that someone has more than 2 animals in housing, those are all issues that cen be addressed by enforcing the pet policy and writing the AIRs.

03 Nov 2009
Angela
More than 50 messages post
Posts:89
Jeannie

We are no longer allowed to trap and spay kittens on base. This is considered acting as "Animal control" for the base and we are now forbidden to do this, even though the base refuses to deal with it themselves. You may contact the Emergency dispatch number to complain or contact higher up if you feel your complaints are not met.

03 Nov 2009
Jeannie
More than 50 messages post
Posts:59
Angela, who should we contact

Can you please post the name and contact info of the person in the "higher ups" that any of us could contact regarding the absurdity of animal management on base? I think it would be helpful to also post signs on the bulletin boards and in the Panarama to get the word out as well. I know you are putting together info to present as well, so let us know how we can best support the effort and not undermine it.

04 Nov 2009
Jeremy
Posts:19
Angela

I guess that you read my post wrong. I never said that we did not respond to nuisance calls, but if you are going to ensure that the laws of the policy are enforced then maybe you should ensure that people in your organization are doing the same thing. Last time I read the pet policy, which was about two minutes ago, it states "Members living in pet-designated government housing may have two pets". I have it on good word that a member of your organization had nine dogs in their house. So if you want the pet policy enforced then maybe the whole thing should be enforced, not just the parts that you think make sense.

Almost everything else I agree with you on. The owners need to be held responsible for cleaning up after their own dogs, and if they are not responsible to take care of their pet then they need to be the responsible person and try to adopt it out.

04 Nov 2009
Eric
Posts:3
Just for a Little Clarity

I am sending this out to dog owners residing on Support Site and all the good folks at the mighty NFOA for their contribution to the efforts concerning the base pet policy. Before the NFOA VP plays on your emotions again, A SEVEN PAGE PROPOSAL SUPPLEMENTING THE BASE PET POLICY WAS SUBMITTED AFTER NFOA's VP insulted the CO and the Adoption Coordinator cried to region after she broke the pet policy three(3) times. It was incidentally denied because NFOA endorsed it. Although no names were mentioned, Security Personnel was referenced as the originator without permission and now bashing Security after the fact. After completely destroying a real chance to amend the policy...GOD BLESS THE NFOA, we don't need your help! The pet policy was put together quickly and there were flaws and the Chain of Command knew it (this is still a military base, right?). If irresponsible people lock their dogs on the porch and leave, how do you suggest shutting them up? Residents do not like Security entering houses without being present, so an AIR is completed and still...barking dog. I guess it would be Security's fault if we were entering houses too?!? Do you know NFOA has a legal stipulation prohibiting them from being primary contact for base strays as a chartered organization for NSA? They know that, right? So how are they putting themselves out like they will take care of it? I feel terrible for these animals because now they have no chance of ever living at peace with other residents because of impatience. Just because we can do something doesn't mean we should...I wish two others would have thought of that before trying to resolve a problems with threats - That ALWAYS works...Thanks NFOA, we residents who ACTUALLY live on support Site appreciate your help. We will be lucky if we can keep our pets now.

04 Nov 2009
Angela
More than 50 messages post
Posts:89
Jeremy

I know exactly the situation you are speaking of and for your information, our member actually informed housing, that if they did not deal with the issue then that person would be taking the dog in. Last I checked the pet policy it said to notify housing in writing when you were taking in an animal. Not this person's fault that the dog was a stray, well known to have been picked up and dumped by security several times, and pregnant. The dog whelped six pups all of which have found homes and will be steralized next week. Plans are being made so that the mother will no longer be a nuisence to the base.

There fore, this person made sure that a stray from base was taken care of, you were not called about these 7 dogs, nor will you ever be called about this stray again. In my mind, the base could have worked with this person so that the stray issue on base can be better and security doesnt have to waste their precious time chasing dogs.

Plus, there have been people who have beaten, starved and dumped their dogs on base and had absolutely nothing happen to them. If you want to say that it needs to be enforced, then I would like to see EVERYONE held to the same standards, not just a handfull.

So why are you and the base so against someone helping?? When someone only wants to help the situation at the base they are harrassed, persecuted, and threatened.

If you want to start pointing fingers at people, you had best be doing it for the right reasons. The base is all up in arms because they did nothing about a stray that was reported and were told that this individual would provide a home for it. Yet for the people who dumped a dog with PARVO on base and left the dog to die and spread the disease, tell me why nothing happened to them even though it was reported, there was an AIR written and it did go to their command?? Why were they not kicked out for having 4 animals in the home none of which were even registered? and then the husband attacked the MA's? And you want to make us out to be the bad guys?

Think I am making it up? Here is the story from the person who reported it:

http://miamattsson.blogspot.com/2009/09/animals-law.html

And yet someone taking in a pregnant stray is so much worse in your book!! Your source is obviously not the best and is biased, as you seem to be.

04 Nov 2009
Eric
Posts:3
Angela

I understand you have a source from Security telling you nothing happened to the husband, but something did. This is what happens when you are not in Security and try to conduct business from the outside. We have standing orders to submit AIRs and reports and we do send them up accordingly. What you don't know is, a follow up by Security, which you blame for everything, did push it. You have helped ON BASE residents enough...you should stop talking.

04 Nov 2009
Jeremy
Posts:19
Angela

Let me give you the break down on how things get reported.....we get the call, we go to the scene and get all the information. After collecting all the info we write our report. From there the report is out of our hands and it goes to the legal office. After that we have nothing to do with it and very rarely get any info back about the case.

You said that the person informed housing. Good for them. I am pretty sure that housing does not outweigh the Commanding Officer. Just because this individual told housing about this dog does not make it right. The policy is the policy. Two pets, not two pets but you can have more if you let housing know.

You need to get your facts straight. We got a phone call about the dog. Myself and another patrolman went to the ATM at the exchange and carried the dog to the Vet Clinic only to find out that they were closed. We then carried the dog to Security and we kept it there until somebody could come and get the dog.

I am so glad that there are individuals like those in your organization that think they know what is best and how to run this military base. Last I knew that job was left up to the Commanding Officer.

05 Nov 2009
Christina
Posts:37
This thread is getting out of hand...

I am not a pet owner. I would like to be but since we live on the Support Site, in a 3rd floor apartment, my family has chosen to wait until we move back to the States. That being said, I've been monitoring this thread since day one.

It seems to me that some people have ignored or forgotten an important part of the initial post...

"Please do not bash, factual information only. Your story as well as this thread will be sent to base officals so they can see the issues that we face. They need to be made aware of specific situations that are affecting the community."

We need to start working together instead of pointing fingers!

Angela - please let us know when this goes to the base officials. Maybe you could suggest a Town Hall Meeting and a committee of Support Site residents to brainstorm solutions. I'd be pleased to help out.

05 Nov 2009
Jeannie
More than 50 messages post
Posts:59
To Eric

Thanks for the info. As a newcomer to base, I didn't know of any proposal or even any existing pet policies, other than the two pet limit under 70 lbs. I wish there was a way to get info out to everyone as to what is being done, where it is in the review process etc. A public meeting would be great; but I realize this is a military base first and things run differently. Perhaps someone could write an article for the Panorama?

I would like to point out that I don't hear anyone pointing fingers at any one person but rather the system in place. I don't think there any bad people involved, only poor policies (and procedures) in play at the moment.

I hear alot of folks, including myself, who are upset by seeing animals in distress with no viable options available. It's definitely frustrating!

I do hope that the Command can work with base residents on coming up with both a stray AND pet policy (because they are very different animals, excuse the pun!) that benefits both critters and humans alike.

05 Nov 2009
M.
More than 100 messages post
Posts:102
Very large dog in front of the Food Court entrance

I was wondering if anyone had seen a very, very large and tall dog (similar size to a Great Dane) in front of the Food Court entrance, where the tables are outside? I noticed this dog, which was impossible not to notice, a couple of weekends ago, I believe it was Oct. 25 around noon. I was running late to take the kids to the movies, so I did not have the time to stop to ask the owners to take the dog somewhere else, but I was wondering if anyone else reported it and if anything was done about it. It really struck me because of the size of the dog. I'm not sure what its weight was, but I know it was quite big and in an area where it was not supposed to be.

I'm still a strong believer that a fine system has to be put in place. When people are fined $100 (just an example of course) for not picking up their pet's poop, or $300 for leaving their dog on their balcony for hours, I am pretty confident things would change. Unless people are willing to pay such price for such violations, of course. But then again, make it a very hefty fine who will make the first person a great example for everyone else, and I am strongly convinced people will, at least, think about it twice before violating the policy.

05 Nov 2009
Kristin
Posts:10
Email response

Angela,

I emailed your NFOA account yesterday and received a vacation response. Are you checking email?

05 Nov 2009
cole
Posts:9
Animal situation out of control-

I remember the quiet, poop-free days before dogs were allowed on base. I kow that there are many responsible dog owners, unfortunately not in my building. I don't understand the need of change in policy, when dog owners were given the chance to live in Gov't parcos or out in town. I have a fresh pile left right in front of my building and can't get anyone to enforce any sort of rules (or clean it up)! Security shouldn't have to deal with this matter- they should be secure our base and protecting us right? I hope this policy will be reviewed and overturned. Again- I know there are many responsible pet owners who shouldn't have to suffer because of a few "crappy" owners :), but the rest of us shouldn't have to suffer either especially when there is an easy solution.

05 Nov 2009
Jamie
Posts:8
pets

Cole- At least your neighbors are kind enough to take their dogs OUTSIDE your building to relieve themselve...A tenant in my building's dog keeps peeing in our COMMON HALLWAY! And of course it sits there until the buildings are cleaned. Why clean up after your animal when someone will (eventually) clean up for you??? Our BC has even hung up signs regarding this inconsiderate tenant and their poorly trained pet and it still continues to happen!

05 Nov 2009
Angela
More than 50 messages post
Posts:89
Info

Eric, I respect you and everything you do, for several months now i have been in contact with the SJA and have been forwarding him emails that people have sent to me stating that they called security for abuse and neglect cases as well as other issues and nothing was done. No one came and talked to them, no one helped those animals even after they promised they would "investigate".

I have had several meetings with public works with the last year, even before this pet policy became in place. I have offered support and suggestions at every turn and gotten no where, nothing is ever done.

So yes, I emailed the CO. I did not insult him, I told him that what the base is doing is illegal, that I have contacted security on issues, and SJA and was now coming to him because "the chain of command" was not getting anything done. I am sure you have seen it, I simply stated that if the base continued to brak Italian Laws, I would be notifying the authoritites. I find it sad that instead of trying to fix the problems, they seem to be trying to justifyig allowing people to abuse and abandon these animals.

And I know for a fact that nothing happend to the people who dumped the dog, their command was not notified to kick them out. I did not need security to tell me that.

And to jeremy, yes the pet policy states that if you wish to pet sit you have to tell housing in writing. That was done. The pet policy says you may pet sit a maximum of two pets. It does not clearly state that you can not pet sit if you have two pets, it says that a maximum of two pets may be watched as long as housing is made aware in writing. If their intent was that two pets may only be in the house at a time, and you may not pet sit a pet if you have two pets of your own, this was not made clear in policy, nor made public knowledge.

So apparently the policy is not enforced the same for everyone. It is pretty apparent that it is selectively enforced and is not adequate.

And as far as I know, NFOA is NOT a primary contact for strays, the base has made the Emergency Dispatch Center the primamry contact. But in calling them myself, they really dont do anything.

And as I stated in the beginning, this was not meant to bash anyone, this was a way for people to voice their stories about what issues they were having with getting the pet policy enforced. As you can see by the real posters here, there are issues that are not getting addressed.

05 Nov 2009
Emily
Posts:21
fees?

I do not think that imposing fees will really be the best solution.

If all pets are required to be registered with the base, and in order to receive your pet registration you must comply with any vaccinations and micro chipping (possibly spaying/neutering), then the powers that be will know exactly who owns what animal.

If all registered pets have tags then it will be easy to identify strays and unregistered pets.

So maybe if the people do not comply they can be formally written up and if they continue to do what they please they can lose the privilege of having their family with them.

Why can the military not require the people responsible for the animals to either provide proof that they are shipping them home or provide proof that they have transferred ownership before leaving?

This was never a problem at our last overseas base and I am not sure exactly what the policies were because we didn't have an animal. They were not allowed in apartments, only in the town homes. We aren't even in Naples yet and reading this thread makes me more than a little nervous. Initially I thought it would be nice to be able to walk everywhere but it doesn't sound so great if the ground is covered in poop and there are wild dogs roaming around.

05 Nov 2009
Eric
Posts:3
For the record

Understanding that residents and animals can live together, we also know there are obvious growing pains. With that being said, my intention was not to bash the NFOA, but make it known that particular people in uniform are about to pay for all three emails sent to our military leaders (I have them). The pet policy was written very quickly and there were expected flaws to come about, which leads to further revisions and they will take place regardless if some one reports to mass media or not. We all want it to work and that is a fact. I just wish the proposal would have gone up before those emails did, because the policy is going to turn against responsible pet owners; just know that much. Security does what they are told and abide by the limits as the Chain of Command sets. We know there are things we could do, but can not by instruction, that's why you don't see immediate reaction whenever you call, or report things. When we are allowed to send SWAT in for a barking dog or piles of crap, we will, I promise. Until then, the AIR (sent to housing) will be filled out as necessary and our dogs will be scanned at the gate and Carney Park as instructed. Italian Law does not allow us to herd cats...I've already asked; nothing we can do. I agree, people should be accountable for abandoning pets...it is in the works for UCMJ as we speak, the CO knows already, so tell him again...Please stop this!!!

07 Nov 2009
Jaime
Posts:32
Building Coordinator for pee in the hallways.

We each have a building coordinator. They have the responsibility to keep the order in the building and bring up concerns to housing. Have any of you brought this up to them (pee in the hall, and in the common places outside?) I suggest that you do. If you see a person walking a dog without a poop bag, call them on it. Like I said earlier, ebay $20.00 for 700. That's a lot of poop.

08 Nov 2009
Jeannie
More than 50 messages post
Posts:59
to Emily

Emily, it IS wonderful walking everywhere. I have been in the Navy Lodge TLA for over 2 months and have never seen a stray dog, just lots of stray kitties that I have a soft spot for. The Navy Lodge TLA apartments do house a lot of dogs who bark a lot and keep us awake. It's not the dogs' fault - they are just being dogs, and probably stressed about being in a strange place. I wish the Navy Lodge would have a no-dogs policy, and make arrangements with a nearby kennel to help new folks.

I see a lot of dogs on apt. balconies, but as I do not plan on living on base (because we have 2 large dogs which are Stateside until we get settled) I can't speak for living on-base. It is true that are stinky piles of poop around the apt buildings in the grass, which I notice when I approach a building. But I walk about 5 miles/day on base, and enjoy every minute of it, dog-poop free.

If you are used to living in a house and can live off-base, I do recommend that option. I find it very noisy here-cars, people, dogs etc. and am looking forward to a quieter neighborhood off-base.

08 Nov 2009
Emily
Posts:21
Jeannie

Thank you. :)

I did want to live off-base but I do not think we will have a choice. From what I understand we must live in base housing. I do not want to live in an apartment. It looks like most people don't or they wouldn't have to make it mandatory! But, I have been warming up to the idea of at least having the convenience of living on base. Hopefully these issues will be taken care of by the time we arrive. It sounds like something will be changing soon.

BTW- I don't blame the dogs either.

09 Nov 2009
Todd
Posts:1
AWL: Disclaimer

Some comments have been posted on this thread that could lead some to believe that Animals Without Limits, Inc. (AWL) is somehow involved with the situation of animals on post, or involved with (Angela) NFOA in the issues surrounding enforcement of the Pet Policy.

Animals Without Limits, Inc. (AWL), is an international non-profit organization devoted to the assistance of animals in crisis, chaos and war zones. AWL is not Command Recognized by NSA-Naples or any other US Military command. AWL has, in the past, supported NFOA in some of its work, and would consider doing so in the future, however AWL is not "working together with NFOA" on this or any other project or issue, now or in the past. No member of AWL has met with NFOA's Angela, nor had any conversation on any topic.

The link posted to a blog authored by AWL's founder and president, is her personal blog, not the AWL blog. Actions taken in the specific situation discussed in that blog-thread by the blog's author were her personal actions as a member of the Naples military community, and not as an offical of AWL or any other organization.

If there are any further questions surrounding the involvement (or lack thereof) of AWL with any issues dealing with NSA-Naples, please contact info@animalswithoutlimits.com for factual information.

Todd A. Mercer

Animals Without Limits

09 Nov 2009
Rick
Posts:7
Carney Park

I'm just wondering if any of this also will apply to Carney Park. I am tired of going to Carney on the weekend for my child's soccer game and having peoples dogs sitting right next to the soccer field barking at the kids playing. There are signs posted on the fences stating "No dogs" and when asked if they can take the dogs off the field the owners act insulted. What can we do about that?

I personally have 3 dogs and do not take them with us to the park, because of the fact of all the commotion of kids running around and people yelling would get them excited.

10 Nov 2009
d
Posts:39
dogs

I really wish dogs weren't even allowed on base. I agree that it isn't security's problem but we need it to be someone's problems. The owners of some of the dogs just aren't going to help. I was hoping at least for building that didn't have dogs at all. I'm tired of hearing the people around me allow their pets to bark and yap all night long.

10 Dec 2009
Whitney
Posts:3
Not NFOA

Hello, all. My name is Whitney Coleman, President of NFOA. I just wanted to make a short statement. The blog posted above is not from NFOA. It is from am former board member and are her personal feelings. We are in no way involved with the above blogs. We are not here to act as animal control and are not here to enforce the pet policy. We are here to help the strays and the local shelters in the community. If you have any concerns or questions about our stand on things or what our mission is, please feel free to email us. Our emails are on the website at naplesfriendsofanimals.org. Thank you.