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30 Nov 2010
Jonathan
Posts:7
Dog leavings

There is nothing like rushing down stairs to get to an appointment and crossing a small patch of grass to get to your car and stepping into a huge pile of dog feces. Two thousand people living within a one square mile kennel and people can't pick up their dogs droppings. I own a dog myself and It takes less effort puting on her leash than I do bending over to pick up her droppings. Are you making  a mental note to yourselves of the locations of your dogs feces, so the next time you take your dogs down YOU don't step in it? Or are they strategically placed like landmines for the kids that play all over the parks and in the grass? No, the rain does not make them disappear. It just makes them slimy piles of laziness.

18 Dec 2010
jessica
Posts:9
Re: Dog leavings

This is so frustrating. I have a dog and cant even take him to potty outside our building because its FULL of dog feces. I cant even count the times ive had to take him out in the dark and found one of these landmines with my shoe. Its so disgusting. It has gotten to the point when i bend over to pick up my dogs poo i end up picking up two or three other piles just to keep from stepping in them later. Ive heard the excuse that there isnt any bags well somehow there hasnt been any bags but ive managed to clean up after my dog. Go to the nex in the baby section on the end on the back wall next to the shoes there are diaper bags for disposing of disposable diapers they are like a dollar something. Please be responsible dog owners.

18 Dec 2010
Lyndsi
Posts:9
Re: Dog leavings

Here is an idea for people that seem to need help picking up after their animals droppings. Use the plastic commissary bags, they are free! Although the diaper bags are a good idea. I don't even feel comfortable letting my toddler walk through the grass on the way to the park b/c on more than one occasion he has stepped in poo. We have two dogs and clean up after them EVERY time. It really isn't that difficult. As for the people that are too lazy to, you are giving us good pet owners a bad name and we really don't appreciate it!

22 Dec 2010
Mary
Posts:6
Re: Dog leavings

I totally agree...I hate my BC because we get blamed for all the poo around our bldg... I make it a point to buy 770 bags at a time from amazon...if I am going to go thru the trouble of doing that u bet I am going to pick up after my dog. I hate lazy owners for real!

28 Jan 2011
David
More than 50 messages post
Posts:55
Re: Dog leavings

Thought I would resurrect this thread.

I love pets, have owned some, don't have one, and cannot stand lazy owners.  In the last week I have confronted two people about their dogs pooping and the owner not picking it up.  Both times I got the same response "but I don't have a bag, I am going to get one."  Likely excuse.  Both times I said well you are taking your animal out to the "bathroom" so why don't you have a bag.  One person said well because he doesn't always poop.  There is a 50/50 chance that an animal will poop so how hard is it to cary a plastic bag with?  I mean is it that they don't make them like before and now they are like 50lbs so it is no longer convienent to carry them?  Our grass area where the kids play is full of poo because other owners bring their dogs and don't pick up.  You cannot go anywhere on base by foot without having to watch out for land mines.  My kids have brought back plenty of reminders with a trail up the stairs and into our house.

Here is my solution.  I think the CO of the base should start a fine program.  $25 dollars each time your animal poops and you do not pick it up.  Here is the kicker, if someone witnesses it and has proof, they get half of the fine.  As much as people are looking out their windows in housing you are bound to get caught.  Another sweet option would be the pictures of those fined being posted in the Panorama so all your neighbors can see how much of a pig you are.

28 Jan 2011
M.
More than 100 messages post
Posts:102
Re: Dog leavings

David ~ I know it would definitely work with a fine, but it should be MUCH higher.  Make it $100 per offense directly deducted from the sponsor's paycheck and let's see how that goes.  I can assure you people would report these people even without getting a piece of the fine.  It is disgusting.  I have a lovely neighbor who has two dogs and has NEVER ONCE picked up their poop, even when confronted about it.  He just disregarded the comment and left.

And while we're resurrecting topics, could anyone explain why the owner of the dog (who appears to be a pitbull mix) who is in bldg. 2046 (middle apt. on the left if facing the bldg.) constantly leaves the poor dog on the balcony?  We pass the bldg. every day and that dog is constantly out on the balcony.  This is against the base rule, as well as against those dictacted by decency and respect for animals.  Why is this allowed?  Poor dog...:(

28 Jan 2011
Mandy
Posts:25
Re: Dog leavings

I can't see a fine ever getting put forward and approved, much less enforced. However, how about a contact to the sponsor's command, just like the library and movie rental place do with unreturned movies/books, and phone company does with overdue payments?

My husband and I get so frustrated with it also. I am a mother of a 6 month old and have to take my dogs out all the time, with the baby in the carrier. I'm not a big or particularly strong person, so bending over with the baby in the carrier is NOT easy--but I do it twice each time the dogs get taken out. If I can do it with a baby on the front of me and 2 dogs' poo to pick up, ANYBODY else sure the heck can do it too!!! There really is no excuse especially with the new doggie ports that supply bags and a trash can for you. 
Whether we like it or not, people will ALWAYS get away with letting their dogs go potty and not picking it up, at least sometimes. Maybe it would be a good idea to ask the mirabella workers who spend their work days napping and pow-wowwing, smoking in my stairwells to do some yard patrol instead! 

01 Feb 2011
KB
Posts:23
Re: Re: Dog leavings

Cit. M. wrote:

David ~ I know it would definitely work with a fine, but it should be MUCH higher.  Make it $100 per offense directly deducted from the sponsor's paycheck and let's see how that goes.  I can assure you people would report these people even without getting a piece of the fine.  It is disgusting.  I have a lovely neighbor who has two dogs and has NEVER ONCE picked up their poop, even when confronted about it.  He just disregarded the comment and left.

And while we're resurrecting topics, could anyone explain why the owner of the dog (who appears to be a pitbull mix) who is in bldg. 2046 (middle apt. on the left if facing the bldg.) constantly leaves the poor dog on the balcony?  We pass the bldg. every day and that dog is constantly out on the balcony.  This is against the base rule, as well as against those dictacted by decency and respect for animals.  Why is this allowed?  Poor dog...:(

Pitbulls and mixes of pitbulls are not authorized on base, as much as I hate that (I love pitties) and the owner of said dog should be reported. Not only for having a banned breed on base, but for leaving them on the balcony. Have you reported them? If not maybe you should do so rather than just posting about them on NAH.

Also, next time the disgusting neighbor leaves his droppings behind, pick them up and leave them outside his door, right where he will step on them. Just an idea...

01 Feb 2011
Angela
More than 50 messages post
Posts:89
Re: Dog leavings

The problem with labeling a dog as a "pitbull type" is that no one knows what this "type" is or who decides what a dog is supposed to be. It is not stated in the policy what they are supposed to  look for (and on the same note, they list two breeds which do not even exist as being banned.).

The vet does list the dog as a certain breed, however it is ultimately up to housing to decide what breed the dog is and if it is allowed or banned. So reporting the dog will just embroil you, the owner and housing into a battle. (and no DNA tests do not work)

And honestly, most people can not pick out a "pit bull type" correctly. There are over 52 breeds which have been labled as "pitbull" at one time or another. Add in that a mix can look like anything and you cant really be certain a dog is pit unless you have papers.

If you do not believe me, google "Pit bull game" and see if you can guess the pit bull. For what its worth, i played this game with the CO and some Admirals and none of them could identify the true "pit" out of purebreed dog pictures.

For the record, I own and show Amercian Staffordshire Terriers (which most people mistake for pitbulls and bull terriers), so i am well versed in what my breed is supposed to look like, as well as what the other bully breeds standards are. I have been mentoring with AKC and FCI judges for the past 6 years and am aware of what many breed standards call for.

So please, before you go casting stones and reporting "pit bulls" be sure you are ready for the battle that may ensue as there is no part in the policy that states what the "type" is nor what the policy is if a person reports a dog as being "pit bull". How do you prove that the dog is pit if the vet has him listed as a lab mix? (and yes some lab mixes can resemble pits).

And keep in mind that housing's job is about housing and they are not trained breed inspectors. They have no qualifications to say what breed a dog is, yet if they approve it, then the dog is allowed on base and you are SOL about getting the animal off base.  

01 Feb 2011
M.
More than 100 messages post
Posts:102
Re: Dog leavings

David ~ No, I have not reported them, because I have already done it in the past (for another dog that was constantly left on the balcony) and nothing was done.  The interesting thing is that I was actually told that nothing would be done because all the they can do is knock on the person's door and leave a note.  As for the breed, I know pit-bulls are not allowed on base.  However, I also know that, if it is is a pit-bull mix indeed, they owners argue that the ban applies only to pure breeds (but I am still confident nothing will be done for this as well).  A while back there was a rottweiler advertised here in naplesallhands, with a picture of it clearly showing it was in a unit on the Support Site (number to call was also on the Support Site).  One of my co-workers called it in with Security, had the person who picked up the phone look it up on nah, and was told there was no proof that it was here on the Support Site.  I thought the picture was a blatant proof of this, but a simple verification of what bldg. and apt. # that phone # belonged to (something I imagine would not be that difficult to do with the proper authority) would have gotten the owner caught and the dog removed from the base.

I have been here a long time, and I have learned, unfortunately, that none of this will change.  I have seen long posts here on nah between people accusing the MAs of not doing their job and people saying that it is not their job to do that.  The poop delivery is, however, a great idea. :)  I think we should all do it to those whose behinds are too lazy to clean up after their dogs. :)

01 Feb 2011
M.
More than 100 messages post
Posts:102
Re: Dog leavings

Bleh ~ Sorry, I hadn't realized the reply came from you. :)

Angela ~ I agree with you 100%.  And even if the dog were to be a pure pit-bull, considering that nothing was done with that dog that was advertised as a rottweiler (and, correct me if I am mistaken, but I believe it is more difficult to mistake another breed for a rottweiler) on the Support Site, I would not report it.  Honestly, my main complaint is for the fact that this dog, along with many others, is left on the balcony for such a long time every single day.  But then again, I have learned how things work when it comes to this kind of issues, and, therefore, at the most I will post here.  And yes, I am aware that this doesn't accomplish anything. :)

01 Feb 2011
M.
More than 100 messages post
Posts:102
Re: Dog leavings

Angela,

I also wanted to add that we are all aware of the fact that we are SOL just about every rule in the pet policy that gets broken.  The base is patrolled on a regular basis, so I know I am not the only one who notices dogs left alone on a balcony.  Is anything done about this?  Obviously not.  I have friends who have reported dogs barking incessantly way more than 3 times (which is supposed to the maximum before a dog is evicted, correct?).  Nothing is done about this either.  So, yes, I am well aware of how SOL we all are.

As for different breeds looking similar, I agree, most of us are not as trained as you, and will most likely make mistakes.  And that is probably one of the reasons why this doesn't get reported.

01 Feb 2011
Angela
More than 50 messages post
Posts:89
Re: Dog leavings

M,

My post is more to point out the inadequacies of the policy. We all know what the rules are and what people should be doing (picking up after their dogs, not leaving them on balcony, registering their pets, etc). Unfortunately it is a poorly written, poorly thought out, and very poorly enforced policy that we have to live by.

I personally know people with more than 4 animals in their home, i know people who have not registered their animal with housing or the vet, i know of pretty much every rule being broken. But i dont care enough to report them anymore. Why bother when someone will just say its not their job, there is nothing that they can do, or the person in question "knows the right people" so that nothing happens to them.

I think it is a shame that the base and powers that be have put out this policy that they have admitted is lacking and yet refuses to back up any of the rules. It has been proposed, even before the policy came out that they charge fines, in fact many things have been proposed that the base has ignored.

The truth of the matter is the base and the "powers that be" are not interested and unwilling in making any changes to help the community better deal with the issues. They are not willing to iron out the "creases" in the policy, they are not interested in proposals from commnunity members, they are not willing to address any of these issues.

If they cared, we would have seen SOME changes by now. We would not see the information flow so disjointed. If they cared to enforce their own policies, we would not even be having this discussion.

But sadly, the issues will continue to worsen, people will eventually stop reporting (because why bother) and there will be no policies followed.

01 Feb 2011
M.
More than 100 messages post
Posts:102
Re: Dog leavings

Angela ~ I couldn't agree more.  People come here to vent because it is basically the only thing they can do.  It doesn't solve anything, I know, but sometimes one just feels the need to do so.  You know when things *might* change?  Unfortunately, when something serious happens.  If someone were to be attacked by a dog not on a leash, maybe, just maybe, something might be done.  But why does something serious have to happen before something is done?  I honestly don't care anymore.  I still think that the idea of taking the poop on the doorstep of the offenders would be a GREAT idea. :)

07 Feb 2011
Gregory
Posts:8
Re: Dog leavings

that is the world we all live in today....something serious has to happen before anything is done, how do you think rules and regulations are made?  yes, this is a place for people to vent because if they dont do it on here nobody else would care what they were talking about.  So, i agree with people complaining and voicing their opinions on these threads, but frankly it just shows what kind of person they are and that they want to live in a perfect little world, which will never happen.  Not every piece of dog poop is going to be picked up and not every dog is going to be taken off the balcony...if you want something done do something about the stray cats that live under our cars and eat our brake lines or take poops in the grass and try to attack us while we walk our kids.  OH YAH AND STOP FEEDING THE STRAY CATS!!!

07 Feb 2011
KB
Posts:23
Re: Re: Dog leavings

Cit. Gregory wrote:
that is the world we all live in today....something serious has to happen before anything is done, how do you think rules and regulations are made?  yes, this is a place for people to vent because if they dont do it on here nobody else would care what they were talking about.  So, i agree with people complaining and voicing their opinions on these threads, but frankly it just shows what kind of person they are and that they want to live in a perfect little world, which will never happen.  Not every piece of dog poop is going to be picked up and not every dog is going to be taken off the balcony...if you want something done do something about the stray cats that live under our cars and eat our brake lines or take poops in the grass and try to attack us while we walk our kids.  OH YAH AND STOP FEEDING THE STRAY CATS!!!


The strays eat garbage from the overflowing trash bins, if you want to stop feeding them get them to pick the garbage up more often...and I'm sorry, but I can't imagine a cat trying to attack a group, or even a solo person. Is it possible you're taking their cowering under cars, trash bins, etc. as aggression?

If a cat is showing aggression towards humans there is something wrong with them, like rabies maybe, that is a serious problem and you should report it immediately. All I've seen cats do on base is hide from people, or approach them in hopes of a cuddle and some food as they've obviously been ditched by their previous owners when they pcs'd.

07 Feb 2011
M.
More than 100 messages post
Posts:102
Re: Dog leavings

Gregory ~ Nope, I am not going to do anything about the stray cats, because, in my perfect little world, they just don't bother me.  Ever wondered why we don't have rats around the base despite the trash?  And I am ready to bet anything that not many people, if any at all besides you, have ever been attacked by a cat here on base.

And considering how many people complain about poop not being picked up, I would say that that is probably the rule and not the exception.

08 Feb 2011
Gregory
Posts:8
Re: Dog leavings

that was the response i was looking for, "i am not going to do anything about the stray cats." that is breaking the rules, no exception.

08 Feb 2011
M.
More than 100 messages post
Posts:102
Re: Dog leavings

Gregory ~ Exactly how do the stray cats break the rules by just existing?  And instead of asking people not to feed them, why don't you ask them not to abandon their pet when they PCS?  It is not the breaking the rules per se that bothers me.  If a stray cat gets fed, I don't think there are any repercussions for the people living on this base (except, of course, you and your car, since it looks like you and your vehicle have become the targets of these ferocious beasts ;)).  When dog poop is not picked up and someone steps on it or a child plays with it, then it is a different story.  When a dog is left abandoned on a balcony that is called cruelty towards animals.  And have you noticed that the posts that keep popping up on NAH are about dog poop and not really about stray cats?  I can't possibly imagine why. :)

09 Feb 2011
Gregory
Posts:8
Re: Dog leavings

to M.....animal cruelty?  are you joking? tell that to the dog who lives on a farm in a barn and protects the cattle from wolves. tell that to the dog that hunters take out when they go hunting to retrieve their kill.  What YOU are saying, in comparison to a dog (who is an outdoor dog being left on the balcony) is that these dogs are being treated with the upmost cruelty, when it is there nature to be outside in the outdoors loving life.  YOU are saying that we should not let a hound do what it is best at, hunt and retrieve, or a cattle dog do what it is best, protect the cattle in the middle of the night when we are sleeping.  YOU are saying, and again i stress (comparing the dog who gets left out on the balcony) that this is cruelty to animals.  YOU sir or mame are WRONG.  To keep a dog inside and to deprive him of their love for outdoors is, in fact, ANIMAL CRUELTY.  Back to the topic of stray cats.  No cat has chewed my brakelines persay but there are stories out there and how do you know they have abandoned by people PCS'ing, unless you have known of someone who has done that?  If you ask yourself if I am accusing you on this topic at hand, well that is your opinion to make and rely on.  Now onto the topic of the dog feces that do not get picked up.  I pick up my dog poop everyday.  But it is going to happen that a piece of dog poop does not get picked up.  Feel free to walk around base with a pooper-scooper and pick up every piece of poop that you see, but until you do that than the problem is not going to be solved.  Until every cat is identified (by having a microchip) you should not be blaming people who PCS.  Of course the finger is going to be pointed at them because thats the easy thing to do, but have you driven around the Naples area?  How many stray cats/dogs have you seen?  But, according to you it is the people who have PCS'ed who left these animals behind.  So, excuse me if I am wrong but I have seen a number of dogs/cats out in town that are strays and IDENTIFIED as strays, so please do yourself a favor and do not accuse and blame the stray cats problem on base to members of the military who have PCS'ed.


09 Feb 2011
JoAnne
More than 100 messages post
Posts:123
Re: Dog leavings

Ok, I have lived on this base for 6 1/2 years and for the first 3 years dogs were not allowed on base.  I don't want to offend dog owners (I do love dogs) but there have never been so many problems here with animals since dogs were allowed on the ss.  There have been MANY puppies dropped off and dogs tied up to the vets and abandoned.  As for the cat'  YES most have been left behind by their so called owners, and yes I do know this as I have taken many to the vest and had them scanned.  I have also had many fixed who have had chips. Just last year a family in our quad released their pet bird and 2 cats soon as they moved into the TLA.  I did call security who didn't do anything!  Now having said all this what it boils down to is there truly needs to be some serious consequencies for the owners when it comes to not taking care or abandoning an animal.  Dogs should not be left on balconies they need a house and a garden and cats should be kept indoors, this is just my opinion. I know there are many good animal owners who take care of their dog/cat but if others carry on not picking up after their dogs, or leaving them to bark on balconies and those who leave their cats behind because it's too much of a hassle to take back eventually bases will stop allowing all animals.  So, lets get responsable and take care of our furry friends and not adopt if you can't do that.  Animals are not a 2 to 3 year tour fix, like kids they are for life and they can be just as expensive, so again "THINK" before adopting.

09 Feb 2011
M.
More than 100 messages post
Posts:102
Re: Re: Dog leavings

 

Oh, I'm sure all dogs left on a balcony for days must be LOVING life!  Is that what you do to your dog so that he/she can enjoy life?  What a lucky dog!

So, unless I pick up all the poop left over on base, the problem won't get solved?  Wow, you are, indeed, a GREAT problem solver!  I should have thought of that myself.

I am not blaming people who PCS because the cats on base are not a problem for me.  I was just telling you, since you are the one who obviously has a problem with them, to ask people not to abandon them when they leave.  I have lost count of how many declawed cats I have seen around the base without a collar, which means that yes, sir, they were abandoned.  And yes, I know how to determine visually if a cat has been declawed, in case you were to ask.

I have also noticed some inconsistencies in what you write.  So, you can believe stories you hear about monsters cat attacking cars (and people?), but I, technically, should test every single cat on base to see if it has a microchip?  It appears to me that you are using two different standards here, which, of course, I was expecting.  Oh, and how exactly do you identify the cats on the streets as strays?  You do know that there are cats which roam the streets during the day and go back home for meals and shelter at night, right?  They, too, are loving outdoor life!

Well, you obviously think that leaving poop behind is ok, you have already made excuses for leaving some behind (trust me, it is not hard to pick up ALL of the poop), so I assume you probably make excuses for yourself at one point or another and fail to pick up your dog's poop.  I hope you enjoy stepping on some dog's poop and bringing it to your house.  But then again, I don't think it would bother you that much.

10 Feb 2011
Angela
More than 50 messages post
Posts:89
Re: Dog leavings

Greg,

I am sure you mean well, but comparing cattle dogs and hunting dogs to these dogs on base is like comparing apples to watermelons. First, a hunting dog and a cattle dog are highly trained (i know because i have trained cattle dogs to herd). Second, these animals "love outdoor life" because they have a job to do, one that not only were the bred and trained to do, but one that stimulates their mind everday. They are not lonely or bored, they do not bark all day to alleviate their boredom, they are well treated and well cared for, exercised every day and its easy to "love life" when that is what you live like.

These dogs on base however, are quite opposite. Most are left on the balcomies day after day, with littel to no mental stimulation. Most are kept on their balconies in their own feces, or when the feces is washed off, it is just either washed on down to the next person and washed onto the ground. Many of them bark out of boredom because owners are not giving them the exercise and stimulation the desire and need. They cant "love the outdoor life" when they are stuck in a, what?, maybe 3 X 6 area that basically equates to a kennel run.

On top of that info, everyone who has an animal is supposed to sign the paperwork stating that they have read the pet policy (which is rarely enforced anyways). The policy specifically states that animals are not to be left on balconies and are not to be tied of to any object. So People KNOW that they are not supposed to do this, but do it anyway. They get the animal, bring it into their home, with the FULL knowledge that they are not to use the balcony as a kennel. Yet this is exactly what they do.

So yes, locking a dog up on the balcony all day, with no mental stimulation (other than what they make up), little to no exercise (except for the occasional 5 second bathroom walk), living in their feces, in a small enclosed area, and MANY times with no food and water (yes i have personally seen this happen) does equate to animal cruelty.

Its no different than if i put my dog in a kennel run, left it there all day, never cleaned up after it and occassionally fed it when "i had the time".

 

10 Feb 2011
KB
Posts:23
Re: Re: Dog leavings

Cit. Gregory wrote:
to M.....animal cruelty?  are you joking? tell that to the dog who lives on a farm in a barn and protects the cattle from wolves. tell that to the dog that hunters take out when they go hunting to retrieve their kill.  What YOU are saying, in comparison to a dog (who is an outdoor dog being left on the balcony) is that these dogs are being treated with the upmost cruelty, when it is there nature to be outside in the outdoors loving life.  YOU are saying that we should not let a hound do what it is best at, hunt and retrieve, or a cattle dog do what it is best, protect the cattle in the middle of the night when we are sleeping.  YOU are saying, and again i stress (comparing the dog who gets left out on the balcony) that this is cruelty to animals.  YOU sir or mame are WRONG.  To keep a dog inside and to deprive him of their love for outdoors is, in fact, ANIMAL CRUELTY.  Back to the topic of stray cats.  No cat has chewed my brakelines persay but there are stories out there and how do you know they have abandoned by people PCS'ing, unless you have known of someone who has done that?  If you ask yourself if I am accusing you on this topic at hand, well that is your opinion to make and rely on.  Now onto the topic of the dog feces that do not get picked up.  I pick up my dog poop everyday.  But it is going to happen that a piece of dog poop does not get picked up.  Feel free to walk around base with a pooper-scooper and pick up every piece of poop that you see, but until you do that than the problem is not going to be solved.  Until every cat is identified (by having a microchip) you should not be blaming people who PCS.  Of course the finger is going to be pointed at them because thats the easy thing to do, but have you driven around the Naples area?  How many stray cats/dogs have you seen?  But, according to you it is the people who have PCS'ed who left these animals behind.  So, excuse me if I am wrong but I have seen a number of dogs/cats out in town that are strays and IDENTIFIED as strays, so please do yourself a favor and do not accuse and blame the stray cats problem on base to members of the military who have PCS'ed.


When there are stray cats outside of TLA that will hop on my lap while I'm drinking my coffee, I can safely assume that no only were they someones pet, but the state that I find them in, de-clawed and missing pieces (no really, parts of ears gone, I saw one with a missing eye!) I think it's safe to assume that the cat followed their family to TLA but was left behind to fend for itself. Do you know how hard it is for a declawed cat to survive outside among hundreds of other cats who are clawed? not to mention stray dogs. It's unfortunate and also safe to assume that it's the American military members who leave them behind. I say American because declawing is not a procedure that many of the locals would do to a cat. I mean, my landlord cringed when I told him both of my pets were castrated.

I keep my dog indoors while I am not at home, because I must be a cruel and evil doggy parent. I feel that my 5lb dog can't handle weather changes, not to mention some greedy person may steal him. He has an indoor potty option so he can relieve himself in a sanitary manner and I clean up after him. He always has fresh water and food in his dish, no rain ever touches his coat, and he's kept warm in the winter/cool in the summer. Sorry if that is considered animal cruelty in your book, but I truely feel sorry for your dogs if that is how you feel.

10 Feb 2011
M.
More than 100 messages post
Posts:102
Re: Dog leavings

JoAnne, Angela and Bleh ~

Thank you for posting and sharing your thoughts.

Angela ~ I don't think it could have been phrased better. :)

Bleh ~ That is exactly how you treat your family pet (meaning the way you do), because, like JoAnne said, a pet is for life and not just a temporary fix.  They are family members and as such should be treated.

People who make excuses for the situation being the way it is, and who put back responsibility for cleaning up on those who complain about it (this is one of the most ridiculous things I have ever heard!), are probably one of the reasons why things are the way they are.

I was appalled to read that there are people who believe that leaving your dog for days at a time with no food or water (thank you, Angela, for pointing that out) or exposed to extreme weather conditions.  Angela brought up some very good points about dogs being left alone day after day.  And like JoAnne said, why get a dog if you can't (or won't) care for it properly?  I would imagine that a person who says that it is ok to leave a dog on a balcony most likely does leave a dog on a balcony.  Likewise, someone who says that it's ok to not pick up all of the feces, or that wanting to be able to walk around the base without stepping into piles of poop is expecting to live in a perfect little world, most likely doesn't care about cleaning after their pet.

13 Feb 2011
M.
More than 100 messages post
Posts:102
Re: Dog leavings

Just wanted to add a little something, which only confirms, once again, that nothing will ever happen, no matter what, about the 'crappy' (pun intended) situation on base.  If an MA and the spouse of such MA do take their dog out, right outside their house, and do not pick up its feces, and if they do leave their dog out on the balcony, then I honestly don't think things are every going to change.  I would imagine that an MA and his/her family should be an example of how to enforce the rules, and not of how to break them, so how can we expect anyone in our community to follow the rules when something like this happens?  And in this case I am perfectly aware of the fact that reporting this person would do absolutely nothing, because this person is, indeed, an MA.  I have reported something to security about this person in the past and nothing happened, nothing was done and the situation never changed.  It could have easily been fixed with the intervention of security, but I suppose that is not how it works and the rules are obviously not the same for everyone.

13 Feb 2011
JoAnne
More than 100 messages post
Posts:123
Re: Dog leavings

M.  As much as it saddens me NOTHING is going to happen until the "powers that be" start to make military and civilians accountable for their animals when it comes to adopting, taking care of them and PCSing with them when they leave.  I have left countless posts on adopting, what it costs, the time you have to put in to caring for an animal, vet bills and not everyone will leave here by MAC flight and so will have to spend $$$ to go commercial with their pet.  When adopting everything needs to be thought over from can I handle taking care of an animal if I get pregnant to I want to travel and now who will watch my dog/cat to the PCS move.  Then they all come on here hoping someone will take their "inconvenience" of their hands.  I have been saving and planning since arriving here to the day we leave and will be taking our cats with us.  Adopting is not a quick fix but a life long commitment, it's so not fair to the animals, the children you take them away from and to everyone else who is then left to see these poor animals left behind.

15 Feb 2011
sara
Posts:6
Re: Dog leavings

I like point,one more thing in the all dog conversation,dog owners you can walk the dog evrywhere here in base,but not in the playgrounds.It is the only place  incontaminate for the little ones ,beside is prohibited according to the housing manual please read.

16 Feb 2011
JoAnne
More than 100 messages post
Posts:123
Re: Dog leavings

I also think it is against base rules to leave your dog on the balcony.  "However"  I really don't have a problem with that, I think it's more pet friendly to keep your door cracked so the dog can go in and out as it pleases and as long as it does not bark the whole time it's out on the balcony I don't see why it should be a problem. 

16 Feb 2011
M.
More than 100 messages post
Posts:102
Re: Dog leavings

Sara ~ That is an awesome point about dogs on playground.  This is another rule which gets completely ignored VERY frequently.  I see dogs walking around playground areas all the time, or even tied to the benches of the playground.  And yes, that is also against the rules ~ dogs cannot be tied onto anything if I am not mistaken.  We have confronted several dog owners who let their dogs run around in the playground, and we have heard all sorts of excuses, such as 'we didn't know', 'are you sure?', 'I thought you could do that as long as no children are around (that is just too good!).  That is one rule that is fairly easy to enforce though, as I usually ask people who do this to leave the playground.  They don't like that, but they do it.

17 Feb 2011
Christina
Posts:37
Re: Dog leavings

The issue with the playgrounds wouldn't even exist if we had a dog park to use. We've been waiting over a year for the dog park to be completed! The sensors on the fence still haven't been moved (due to contracting issues, of course). There are so many playgrounds and tot lots on base... Why can't 2 tot lots be redesignated as dog parks? One on each side of the base since they aren't very big. It's such an easy fix! 

18 Feb 2011
NicoleX
Posts:13
Re: Dog leavings

Can you please tell me HOW MANY DOGS are Allowed per Family on Base...????

I've seen people with 3-4 dogs & also with dogs that we supposably should NOT

have on base, like Rottwailers!

Also, I would like to make a comment about the DOGS ON THE BALCONY:

Talking about myself, I Don't believe is Animal Cruelty if you have your dog on the balcony,

especialy if they are Large Breeds...

 as long as they have a house to stay when is cold/hot, plenty food/water, toys to play

and LOTS OF LOVE from the family who has them.

I keep my dogs on the balcony, because of my Medical condition... and although the doctors said

I CANNOT have Animals around me... just because they are outside (on the balcony),

I can get the pleasure to enjoy their LOVE.

And Life is soooooooooo much better when you have a Dog/Cat to share it with!

I know, because I had to be without them for 3 yrs and my life was just Hell...!!!!

 

18 Feb 2011
Christina
Posts:37
Re: Dog leavings

@ NicoleX


Per base policy, only 2 pets are allowed per family. It doesn't matter if it's 2 dogs, 2 cats, 1 of each, etc. As for the breed issue, look back through previous posts on this blog. You'll find some good info.

Personally, I don't have a problem with dogs being out on balconies. Most people don't leave them out there 24/7. As long as they are not barking incessantly we should just mind our own business. With that being said, if someone has ABSOLUTE proof of animal cruelty they should report it.

19 Feb 2011
JoAnne
More than 100 messages post
Posts:123
Re: Dog leavings

Christina is right, 2 animals per household, dogs (believe it or not) can be up to 70lbs each (thats a lot of poundage for an apartment) Again I don't care if they are on the balcony as long as they can get in and out of the apartment and don't bark all day/night long.  Heck I don't care how many animals a house has as long as they take them ALL back with them and don't make them strays on the base or any more than there already is out in town. 

I love animals and agree with a post saying how much happiness an animal can bring into a home, my cats (like I have said before) will be leaving with us, I could not imagine leaving them behind or giving them away.  Again what this all boils down to is folks being responbible for their pet in their home and around the base.  As for the dog run, a resounding "YES" it should have been up before the rules were over turned allowing dogs on base, dogs need to run. As for the cats who have been left behind at least they keep down the mice and rat population.

19 Feb 2011
M.
More than 100 messages post
Posts:102
Re: Dog leavings

I just wanted to comment on the Rottweilers on base.  Yes, there is at least one, and it is the actual owner who actually introduces her dog as a rottweiler.  Oh well...

Nicole ~ A large breed on a balcony, in my opinion, is not a good thing for the animal.  And yes, there are dogs who are left, if not 24/7, pretty darn close to that, with just a couple of 5 minute (if that) potty breaks.  And regardless of how one may feel about it, it is still against base regulations.  So, if your health condition does not allow for you to have pets around you, then you should not have brought pets to the base or you should have chosen to live off base.  What would you do if the rules were actually enforced?

19 Feb 2011
M.
More than 100 messages post
Posts:102
Re: Dog leavings

Quick question for the experts in this field.  Is it true that the cost of shipping a dog back to the States is about $200-300?  This is what a friend of mine paid and was wondering if that is normal.  I keep reading about people who can't afford to ship their pet back to the States and was thinking that the cost would be outrageous.  However, this price sounds quite reasonable to me and it should be very difficult to set this amount aside for family pet.

19 Feb 2011
JoAnne
More than 100 messages post
Posts:123
Re: Dog leavings

I think thats about right for a dog, more if going commercial.  Our 1 cat cost us (all total) $720.00 coming from Guam to here.  Yes, it can be VERY expensive when flying w/animals that's why if you get an animal you start saving soon as you adopt so you can take it with you and there are no surprises on the cost when PCSing.

20 Feb 2011
M.
More than 100 messages post
Posts:102
Re: Dog leavings

This was commercial actually, not a mac flight.  $700 for only ONE cat???   Oh my goodness!!!

20 Feb 2011
JoAnne
More than 100 messages post
Posts:123
Re: Dog leavings

M.  We had to take 3 commercial flights from Guam and 1 MAC.  Guam to Hawaii is mandatory to have an over night stop for quarantine (we stayed an extra night as we had friends there) The only MAC flight was from VA to Naples. 

We knew it was going to cost this much as before we adopted him we looked into cost etc and what it would take to fly a cat to basically anywhere in the world as when we got him we had no idea where we would be stationed next.   This is what I wish people would do here, take EVERYTHING into consideration and look into a few years after adopting to where they may want to go next.  If they go to Japan or the UK the animal has to have blood work done prior to the move which takes quite a while to get back ($40 for the test for each animal, at least for cats) so all this needs to be done a month or so before not at the last minute.

We looked into everything and still have a seperate account for our animals so there are no surprises when we leave.  We have even had all the blood work done just in case as I will not leave them behind, we are now covered every way for them.

22 Feb 2011
Mary
Posts:2
Re: Dog leavings

We flew our dog (70 lb) with American Airlines, direct flight Rome-Chicago for $150.00! That was in October 2010 and was cheaper than we paid to fly her to Naples with Delta two years ago! Here is the link for more info http://www.aa.com/i18n/travelInformation/specialAssistance/travelingWithPets.jsp

22 Feb 2011
Angela
More than 50 messages post
Posts:89
Re: Dog leavings

To fly our dogs in from atlanta to Rome was $900 per dog. We had two dogs so it was 1800 total. This was cargo which does cost more, however there was not enough room on the mac flight to fly our dogs and we could not send them as shipped baggage so we had to use cargo. If you fly your animal with you as checked baggage, it usually does not cost as much.

However, when i was shipping dogs as checked baggage in the states it would cost anywhere from $250 - $500 for one dog and that was WITHIN the US.

Plus you also need to think about when you leave, you may need to board your animals both here in naples and at your next destination as well. You may need to board your animals until you find a place to live that accepts your animals. This is another thing that can be very costly.

Right now we are budgeting $2000 per animal that we own for flights (in case we can not get on the Mac flight again) for paperwork (health certificates, shots etc) for boarding (in case it takes a while to find a new home) and for new kennels that are about $100 a piece. If we end up not spending all the money we have saved for the dogs, the money then goes into out savings account for when we buy a home. Either way i will have enough money for my dogs saved, even if we get orders sooner than expected.

These are things that you MUST take into consideration BEFORE you get the animals. And you need to consider BREEDS as well. Owning certian breeds means you can not take certain orders, you may not be able to live on certain bases and you may have a harder time finding a home to rent or buy due to local laws or housing asscoiation rules.

If you are not willing to make sacrifices for your animals, then do not get one.

And yes, i have a BIG issue for those people that leave their dog on the balcony all day long and that is all the dogs do is sit out there. If you can not live with animals because of your medical condition, then you either need to deal with your medical condition with the animals, or not to own the animals.

We went through this decision as well, once we found out our daughter is highly allergic to both cats and dogs. We have two dogs that we do not feel like we can responsibly give up in this area and so we still keep them. So yes i understand having medical conditions with animals, but if you choose to have animals, you just do not keep them out side and not interact with them as part of your family, especially when you live on a base with such small housing and when it is forbidden due to base rules.

And i also would not admit on a public forum as to breaking the base rules, it could be used against you.