Any guidance on preferred areas to live? Looking for 3 bedroom villa or bifamiliare, vicinity Gricignano. My husband will be working at the hospital (contractor). Would appreciate any contacts. Does base housing write the lease or can it also been done with a private realtor? Grazie!

If you receive a housing allowance, then housing will write the lease. If you don't, then you and the landlord do the lease. There are several good real estate agents in the area who advertise in the Panorama. They each have their own "turf" and rental contacts so it's good to go out with at least two. Housing also does tours but I personally found their services lacking. (and somewhat ethically questionable, but I won't go into that here). I went out with three agents and found Tony Iardino and his step-son Peter Abbey to be the best for our family. Tony knows everyone in housing, and knows all the "ins and outs" to living off-base. You'll see his ad in the Panarama, or I can give you his contact info if you like. You may or may not like Gricignano, as the location is convenient, but air quality, especially in summer, terrible. We opted for a slightly longer commute (20 min) and live in Lago Patria, which gets the sea breezes and hence better air quality. But many people live in Gricignano, so that's just my opinion! Best of luck in your move. Let me know if you have more questions.

Since you guys are coming from Vicenza, I wanted to warn you about the major culture shock you will most likely experience. Living off post in Vicenza is definitely not living off base in Naples. I would highly recommend considering living on base rather than off base, mostly for safety reasons. Everyone has a different opinion on this matter, but I can assure you that it is going to be VERY different to live on the economy over here. You do get a much larger unit if you live off base, and to me that is just about the only pro of living off base. You will be in the Navy Lodge for a while, so that will give you time to adjust and figure out what solution would work better for your family. :) Good luck with the move!

Thanks Jeannie,

It seems that there is a big difference between the way Vicenza and Naples Housing services do business. I'll check to see if the Panorama is on-line. I have an appointment with Maria Grazia from Housing Service Agency on 11 May, she and her father have properties near you in Lago Patria. I would appreciate Tony's tel no, as I agree that I want to meet more than one agent and their personal turfs!Do you suggest we look at only gated communuties? Are there fees involved?

We are hoping for an area that has a small town feeling, similiar to where we live outside of Vicenza, a good capuccino within walking distance is most important! 20 minutes commute is fine.

Sandy ~ I'm not sure I understand correctly. You contacted Housing here on base and one of their representatives offered you her own private housing properties? If that is the case, this is highly unethical and unprofessional.

If you ever find around here the small town feeling that you describe that you have in Vicenza, please, do let me know, lol! The only small town feeling I have found so far is here on base, and sometimes the town does feel TOO small. :)

Milena and Ernesto are also very efficient and will show you 10 houses in one day if you want. They will come pick you up here at the base 30 minutes after your first phone call. I would highly recommend them.

Hi Sandy, I disagree with "M" on the pro's of living off-base but she is right that Vicenza is very different than here. But on-base living is not for me, so opinions vary! Peter's cell is 339 724 7194 and Tony's number is: 335-525-2605, although I find it easier to reach Peter most times. Most rentals are in "parcos" or gated communities, although I do know people who live in villas that are not in parcos. Parcos do add a layer of security, but really an alarm system and good neighbors are just as effective. There are no "fees" other than your rent and utilities. Some people negotiate extras into their rent like gardener, maid, etc. Also, you will find that rent is basically negotiable here, and you can add things like A/C, repairs, etc. into your agreement. I was really annoyed by the whole process but it is what it is, which is why it's so important to have a good agent who can help you work the system. Our first agent tried to take advantage of us, which was frustrating. The other key is having a great landlord. We've heard horror stories and are fortunate to have a wonderful landlord who cares about his property and tenants.

Good luck with your move; and take your time finding housing. I think you'll find a good cappechino anywhere so that's the least of your worries! There are many nice locations off-base, just depends on what you like, and what kind of commute you want. We like Lago Patria for its location to the beach and fresher air, easy commute to base, and "American-friendly" neighborhood. But if you have small children, or will spending a lot of time alone, you might prefer one of the two gov't run parcos off-base. (if available to contractors) Anyway, hope all this helps. Ciao for now!

Thanks to Jeannie and M for guidance and insight. We look forward to(we must only think positive) our new adventure after living in Vicenza for 14 years, as part of our landlord's family and friends. For the record, Housing did not provide any referring agents. I located Housing Service Agency thru the Internet, as well as many other agencies. They were the only responder with an English speaker.

Hi Sandy, best of luck with your move. If you have any more questions, post them as they come up. The NAH community is pretty knowledgable, albeit opinionated ;) LOL

Hi Sandy, I'm not military but have several friends that are military/contract with the military and have lived of base. After hearing from many many people that live off base I can tell you honestly that if you go through housing you will get ripped off. Not just with price of your home but the homeowner will most likely steal your propane, electricity and water and you'll be paying astronomic rates in comparison to Italians or Americans like myself that are here for non military reasons. You can get some sort of a list of home requirements from housing I believe and go find a house on your own. Some requirements are things like 'x number of meters of counter top, bars or alarm system on lower windows and doors' etc.. If you've met any Italians while up North maybe they can translate for you. There are lots of real estate sites like frimm.it tecnocasa.it etc.. We live in a wonderful safe city about 40minutes from the base. It is beautiful, clean, no garbage, etc.. there are wonderful places to live off base, places you live and really enjoy Italy...unfortunately the places housing recommends most likely wont give you that.

to give a small example of something to consider/compare with housing- we have lovely 3 bedroom 2 bathroom independent home(2200sq ft) with space outside for an above ground pool and gazebo we pay 400 euro a month. Our highest power bill for a '2 month period' was 150 euro, ALL of our military friends that have lived off base have ALWAYS paid 800-1200 PER MONTH. Ask any italian if they have ever paid that much...it's impossible for me to get my bill that high! If you'd like help finding something off base without getting ripped off you can send me a message. My husband is Italian and would be happy to help in any way :) Kathy

We recently moved on base from out in town because of a horrible experience. Now...our landlord tried to get us to pay for things around the house when we were living there and tried to rip us off, had continuous breakins with the landlord not caring...and the house was an absolute nightmare under its beautiful exterior, and in the end we had housing agreeing with us. It would be a great thing if housing could ban this landlord and house. I know they won't 'blacklist' anything because then they lose money, but I feel like it is almost my responsibility to warn future renters. I know other people have had bad and great experiences...Im just not sure how to go about warning people!

Maybe a separate blog could be started for people to relate their experiences with housing, landlords, movers, etc.

Make sure all your co-workers know your situation as well, in case the same landlord is suggested to anyone they may be sponsoring in the future

I agree with everything Kathy wrote. BUT, the only advantage to sign a contract with "housing" is that you are protected by a contract the landlord will abide by for his/her own interests. If you don't go with Housing, I am sure you understand that without a proper contract (terms, lenghts, modalities as per Italian law) and one that is registered at the Agenzia delle Entrate(IRS), you might find problems in breaking a contract or getting back your deposit. Again with Kathy, housing will propose only certain areas, Gricignano, Lago Patria etc, that are heavly polluted and Camorra strongholds (I said it) so you might have to deal with people that behave in ways unacceptable in other parts of Italy (ie North and Center). I'll stop here because Saviano's "Gomorrah" has given the most complete picture of this area.

Avellino and Benevento provinces might be a better choice if you REALLY don't want to live on base, ask Kathy abt different areas.

Too much to put here. If you want, call me-081-890-0506. We're moving on base. I've had enough of all the corruption and situations here. My neck hurts from constantly looking over my shoulder.

We rented a house that Tony showed us when we stayed at the Hotel Agora 3 years ago. Our landlord was the Zagaria family. If I knew then, what I know now, I would've done a lot of things differently. We had major trash problems when living in the area (we lived in Parco Mazzola) and a lot of Americans that we knew that lived there, all had something broken into or stolen, we were lucky but we only lived there for 9 months before we moved on base.

First, we would've seen houses from different authorized realtors. Our landlords were in one word Cheap. They patched jobs a lot of things and we had so many issues with the house. They wouldn't negotiate anything other than installing built in baby gates. The security alarm never worked (and thankfully we never gotten broken into but when we moved on base after 9 months of living in that house, the next family got broken into twice). We had a lot of friends whose landlords did this, did that, went above and beyond, ours didn't. So if you see a house that is owned by the Zagaria family in Lago Patria...be weary...

Also billing system while living off base is quite weird...the electric bill always seem to never be correct, even if you sent in your meter reading. We had friends who when they closed out their account had bills ranging up in thousands that they had to pay with only a few hundreds reimbursed because its an estimated cost. Power and internet problems all the time (but that happens on base too).

I say trust your gut instinct. Read the comments people have left about the house and landlord, that will tell you alot. The realtor and landlords all know what military/government official pay so its usually the max amount of what you'll get for housing.

I have heard that Lago Patria has been black listed for Americans to rent just like Casal di Principe...I am not sure but its what people are saying.

We still have friends in the Lago area, if you like the area, use your judgement, do your homework, ask lots of questions. If you feel pressured or feel something is not right, listen to it.

We moved from Lago too. It needs to be on the banned area list. It is just not safe...no matter how many gates you live in or how well your security is. Its not safe for kids to play outside..and not safe to walk around the corner to the store once the sun sets. The houses are beautiful but deceiving! From what Ive heard, the area was popular years ago so thats why there are all the big, beautiful houses, but then crime started pouring in and the americans started moving out. I know a few people who have not had a problem there, but the way I see it, its just a matter of time!

many years ago, when the NSA base was still in agnano, many americans lived in pozzuoli, which was, and still is, very american-friendly neighborhood. that was a long time ago, and americanswere actually happy of the location of the nsa base, it was in town and the possibiloities for social and cultural life were huge. i think that living in pozzuoli still is the best solution for american families. even though it is not that close to the SS, (some 30 min drive) i think there's all you may need. good kindergardens, schools, lots of bars and restaurants, onthe sea. i mean you have all teh possibility of the big town (naples is just round the corner) and all the advantages of having a garden, a nice landscape, good transportation and quiet contexts, like licola... i really think this is the best solution for americans livng here. you know, i live here, and i observe things.. los of americans are moving over here. there must be a reason. i know that if you just step out of the SS there is NO SOCIAL LIFE. HERE IT SI DEFINITELY DIFFERENT...

Wow, this blog is old-from April, so I am surprised to see current comments on it. We live in Lago Patria so I would like to comment. We live in a beautiful home with a fantastic landlord. The two previous tenants had nothing but positive comments (it's definitely worth it to read the exit surveys that housing does). Our house has never been broken into in the 7 years it's been available to Americans. I find the Italian storeowners and vendors in Lago very friendly and helpful. I have never felt unsafe walking around Lago Patria. There is a large NATO population here, as well as Navy personnel. In talking with these folks, most feel the 'dangers" of Lago have been exaggerated or are "old news". With a brand -new, multi-billion dollar NATO facility under construction in Lago Patria and due to open in 2012, you can bet the landlords and local "families" are doing all they can to improve the desirability of this area.

There is crime everywhere, and I don't think any area is safer than another. Our friends in Pinetamare had their dogs drugged and house burglared. Our friends in Pozzouli lived in a very exclusive neighborhood and yet both of their cars were professionally "unlocked", alarms by-passed etc. Being a victim in Lago does not make Lago itself bad.

You definitely need to be "street smart" by practicing common sense safety rules with your car, house and person, and do your research on your house before signing on the dotted line. We backed out of our first contract after listening to our "gut" telling us it was a bad deal. (and it turned out we were right to do so). Sometimes, despite our best efforts, we are victims anyway. You know the expression, sh*&% happens. And it sucks when it does.

I agree with whoever wrote that the Benevento and Avelino areas are safer, cleaner and nicer. However, they do not offer school bus service, and create a much longer commute. It's a trade-off that some of us can't manage.

Sandy, you are ssaying that Maria Grazia works for Housing and is going to show you her properties? isn't that called "conflict of interests"??? How about people from housing getting paid by the landlords to rent thier properties? Isn't that called 'corruption'?

This is everywhere....Vicenza as well...North and south, no difference...

Hello, I'm Italian and I'm married with an american sailor from few years.

I would like to share my experience/opinions.

I live in a place 25 kms north of Caserta (going towards Rome) and I can tell that it's quite, safe and nobody tries to rip you off.

I've lived here for 32 years and now my husband choosed this place to spend the rest of his life.

6 years ago he used to live in Casal, which is 20 kms from my town but I remember when I was a teenager, my parents used to tell me to stay away from that area and people who live there.

I never understood why until I met my husband and I used to go in "that place" almost everyday.

Trash everywhere, big holes in the street, telecom cables wreathed trying to steal somebody else line, gas tanks (??? we used those like 20 years ago) and... my list could go over and over...

A month ago I ended up visit a friend in lago Patria... and that was the first time I've been there because that was another city on my parents blacklist and I was speechless when I ended up on a roundabout full of africans trying to sell drugs in the daylight!

Kids driving mopeds with no helmets... people CONSTANTLY trying to surpass me even if they couldn't!!!

I asked myself.... if people don't know Italy and they end up living in those places ... what impressions could they have of Italy and Italians???

I have no clue why the support site and all south Italy military installations are built on what I called "the trash cities".

If you have the possibility to live off base I invite you to pick areas that are NOT suggested from housing.

I SUPPOSE they have "some kind of interests" to make you live in "those areas" and I don't want to investigate on that.

I'm not trying to rent an house to anybody, I'd only like to express an opinion with the knowledge I have of Italy.

If you would like to contact me to have more info, send me a PM and I'm gonna forward you my cell #.

Bless you, Maria for your "spot on" comments about life here! Coming from an Italian's mouth gives it credibility. Many of us who have come through this part do get a wrong impression, for sure. And I never knew that drugs were available on the roundabouts! As for the driving...it's like a video game, only your life is the "token!"

As for why the base wound up here, I've heard that the person who negotiated it got a huge kickback. When the scandal was uncovered, he committed suicide. (Readers: Feel free to comment and expound.)

Please post some towns that, in your opinion, would be good for Americans to live in--not too far from work, and peaceful and enjoyable. We all would greatly appreciate someone helping us have a good home away from home while we're here. In the meantime, I'm moving out of the lion's den and onto base, with the nice people.

Nice write up Maria, good on you for sharing. I am sure there are many people, especially new comers who will be happy to read what you had to say. Kudos to you for putting it so well.

Great post Maria!! And even in Lago--we met some wonderful Italians..just the bad far out weighed the good. I hope people benefit from your un-biased advice!

Maria:

Wondering what the Italians outside this area think about Pinetemare.

...for the nice comments to my post.

Below is a list of towns that are in the "Caserta Province" that are close to the Capua highway exit (so very accessible) and that I invite you to visit also for their many family owned restaurants, pizzerias and agriturismo:

- Pignataro Maggiore

- Vitulazio

- Camigliano

- Calvi Risorta

- Sparanise

Then a little farther:

- Teano

- Caiazzo (on a side note - this is a little far but if you guys like Argentian steaks you can go to the restaurant "El Caminito" that makes wonderful steaks and Argentinian meals)

Those are for people who likes quite places with no traffic, no garbage, popular traditions, no thieves.

Then there are Avellino province and Benevento province that they're VERY beautiful but far.

A close town to the "trash cities" (sorry if with these words I might offend someobody who reads my post), which is pretty nice and cleanER is San Tammaro.

2 bigger towns for people who likes more opportunities and more traffic :) are Capua and Santa Maria (that from december 2008 has it's own highway exit which is great)

I'm gonna be leaving saturday until June 25 (my husband just got back from a deployment so we're taking a trip).

I was thinking, since you appreciate my help an I appreciate your work,

to meet up on a Saturday or a Sunday at the Support Site and have a small trip with dinner in some of this towns.

If you agree we can plan something when I get back.

Oh Brian... Pinetamare (Villaggio Coppola)... It adds on the blacklist together with Castelvolturno and all the places that are on the Domiziana, UNFORTUNATELY.

I'm so mad for that because they could be beautiful towns with beautiful beaches and they could make a lot of money from tourism (instead that from corruption) but "people" and "politics" that "control" the area just messed everything up. The cities are trashed and only people "involved" hung out there.

All the dumping flow in the sea around.

Speaking of the sea do NOT swim in those areas. If you like to swim I suggest you Serapo, Piana di Sant'Agostino (Gaeta) and Sperlonga. (awesome places in the summer also for nightlife)

IT'S JELENA'S HUSBAND WRITING HERE, "STEALING" MY WIFE'S ACCOUNT.... MARIA, I PERFECTLY AGREE WITH YOUR BLACKLIST. BUT I HAVE TO ADD THAT AT THE SAME DISTANCE TO SS FROM THE PLACES YOU QUOTE, THERE'S THE POZZUOLI AND LICOLA AREA. LOTS OF AMERICAN LIVING HERE CAN SUPPORT MY CONTRIBUTION. I AM ITALIAN TOO, AND I KNOW LITTLE TOWNS LIKE SPARANISE CALVI RISORTA ARE SO LITTLE THAT YOU BARELY CAN FIND THE UTILITIES THAT A BIG TOWN CAN PROVIDE. THEY ARE PERFECT FOR THE ONES WHO WANT TO BE QUIET AND DEFINITELY OUT OF ANY SOCIAL INTERACTION ( VERY FEW PEOPLE SPEAK ENGLISH THERE; THEY ARE MOSTLY OLD PEOPLE). AND SCHOOLS? DO YOU REALLY THINK THE LITTLE SCHOOLS THERE, ARE WELL EQUIPPED FOR FOREIGN STUDENTS. MARIA, I REALLY DONT THINK SO....

I STILL SUGGEST TH EPOZZUOLI - LICOLA AREA. I KNOW ITALY AND I KNOW THE STATES. POZZ-LICOLA AREA IS THE ONE WHICH MOST RESEMBLES THE AMERICAN TOWNS. NOT SURPRISINGLY, THIS WAS THE PLACE WHERE AMERICAN LIVED WHEN THE NSA WAS IN AGNANO, AND AMERICANS STILL LIVE HERE, LOTS OF THEM, THERE'S A VERY ACTIVE AND COOPERATIVE COMMUNITY (PARCO ENEA, PARCO AZZURRO, COUNTRY PARK) EVEN IF THE SS HAS MOVED. THERE MUST BE A REASON. THEY ARE STILL HERE AND THEY COMMUTE TO GRICIG EVERYDAY. LANDLORDS ARE ACCUSTOMED TO AMERICAN STANDARDS, AND THE AREA IS FULL OF SPOTS WHERE AMERICANS MEET USUALLY: CARNEY PARK, SOME PUBS AND BARS, THE CHINESE RESTAURANT IN ARCO FELICE... I DONT KNOW IF YOU HAVE EVER "LIVED" THE PLACE, BUT BELIEVE ME, I KNOW AMERICANS AND ITALIANS AND I CAN ABSOLUTELY SAY THIS IS THE BEST PLACE FOR AMERICANS TO LIVE.

to the above comment by Jelena husband. I am very much NOT the type of person to start disputes but I'm really wondering where in America you have ever lived b/c I'm American and my husband is Italian and we've been here full time for 6 years and on and off for 5 years before that and besides maybe a border town in Texas/Mexico I dont know any place in the US that I'd compare with life in Licola. I would never recommend it to anyone. As for schools, I think most people would drive their child to the base to go to school and if they didnt want to do that a small school in a small town would be easier to adjust to than a school in a larger town.

Landlords are accustomed to American standards yes, b/c they can charge 3x what they'd charge an Italian while still ripping them off in other areas and the American dont even realize it until they meet someone like me or Maria that tells them no, it isnt normal to be charged 1,ooo euro a month for power! We have friends that lived there for a few months before having their car broken into while it was parked inside the gate. They paid 1,800 a month rent(his max allowed) and their neighbors paid 600 for the exact same home! It was a duplex and they were Italians. As an Italian what is your normal gas bill? electric? rent? ask some American what they are charged and then see if you can ever get your bill that high? I know I cant. It's b/c the local construction companies are wired to their power. Also, for people that are raised in corruption (like my husband, who was raised in Naples) it is normal. You cant really understand until you go live somewhere else for several years and then when you come back you reenter the culture shock. So maybe you just dont realize that the crime and corruption just is not normal for many people that live outside of this area. Naples has MANY wonderful things and MANY wonderful people but putting an American to live in the places the military has been placing people is wrong. We live in Avellino and it takes us about 40minutes to get to the base. Avellino is full of Americans, has a great private school with teachers that speak English, and as far as I've seen virtually no crime. I'd feel safe walking the streets at 2am with my 3 kids. When some of our military friends asked people in housing about Avellino (3 years ago when they were leaving Licola b/c they didnt feel safe) they were strongly discouraged from moving here and the reasons given were ridiculous. Maybe their 'connections' dont reach this far. If the color of your home gives a sign about who the boss is, you are living in the wrong city! and each family that we know that has lived in Licola has a home that is 'watched' by someone. i like living in a town where I dont need to be watched out for and I presume most Americans would to.

And sponsors, don't forget...if your home in Licola doesn't have internet, it probably won't have internet for another 2 years or more. (Per QOL) The "key" doesn't work well at high traffic times of the day, which is very frustrating to many. So, if not supporting the commorah isn't initiative enough, lack of internet service may very well be!

I just read the comments and I haven't much to say about Jelena's husband "bolded post"... just that I'm not that old and most of the people who live here aren't old.... I don't know where you have been before. Just one question... if you want to answer: where are you from?

I'm from one of those towns I mentioned before but I traveled a lot also because of my job so I've been lucky enough to see places and live different cultures.

About what Kathy said: I totally agree and, as I stated in my previous post, I think that Avellino and Benevento are really pretty.

Brian... you are correct!

90% of American families living in Pozzuoli, Bacoli Fusaro, Monte di Procida, Arco Felice, Lucrino and Vomero. You think they are all stupid! I think not!

Licola??

Moved into a nice house in Licola in Feb.,  Very good landlord-will do anything for you  House was broken into and robbed the night of 22 June.

Antonio wrote: 90% of American families living in Pozzuoli, Bacoli Fusaro, Monte di Procida, Arco Felice, Lucrino and Vomero. You think they are all stupid! I think not!

The only reason why I'm writing this blog is b/c I'm sick and tired of reading BS. First of all I would like to explain once and for all why Italian landlords charge Americans there full budget rent. When the italians rent a place they rent it just like it is... the landlord dosn't paint the house and dosn't put in kitchen cabinets, dosn't take care of the yard, dosn't have to put an alarm system in the house, dosn't have to put AC, dosn't put in fans nor light fixtures in the house... No electric gate if it dosn't have one and dosn't pay for garbage tax, condon fee and water. All these things that a landlord dosn't have to do and dosn't have to pay for the italians they do for the Americans... besides all the documents that they need to get ready for the housing office so they can rent the house.. and that goes from 300 euro to 600 euro.  In the future if something breaks in the house the landlord needs to fix it... for the Americans... Italians that rent a place need to pay the maintanace of the house... something breaks they pay... Americans don't. Second.. I want to talk about the electic and gas bill... the only reason why it is so high is b/c the bills are on your name so the electric and gas companies know that you are American... so I sugest you keep the bills on the landlords name once you rent a place.... Third but not least is the areas where someone should look for a  house... There isn't  a perfect safe area where nothing happens... it's just luck! Maria was talking about Caserta... well let me talk about it... Every year innocent people are victims of a shootout on the streets of Caserta...  2 examples are: in 2008 6 people died just because the camorra wanted a guy dead... and b/c of that 6 people died... 2009 same thing 1 dead... Breakins are everywhere... Bad things happen everywhere not only here in Italy but even in the States...  It's just a matter of luck. So please don't be hipocrites! Naples is a beautiful place to live...  you will not have another chance to live in a fabulous house once you get back to the states since the rent comes right out of your pockets... A 4 bedroom villa with 2 bathrooms big kitchen and living room and huge yard... For most of you Americans it's only a dream come true.... enjoy Naples! If you all hate it then leave... Naples is probably too good for you...

For some reasons both of us have the same nickname but think very differently.

What you described about what landlords (I'm pretty sure you're one of them) do for Americans is what usually happens also for Italians.

My dad had a 4 stores villa rented for 350€ not 1.600€ as usually Americans pay. You say that they pay the maximum of their OHA. Why should it be like that? Is there a law that say that they need to pay all their OHA?

About the gas and electricity bills you said something really bad. Why the company let them pay more? Only because they are Americans? It doesn't happen in Aviano so why is that?

Shotouts in the streets in Caserta? I think you probably read articles about Caserta province (which is Casal and all the towns I mentioned in my black list). I'm from here and lived here my whole life and I can say that you are very wrong.

Americans get BAH also when they live in the States and house are not that small compared to italian.... the only dfference is the concrete vs wood.

Naples is VERY beautiful... what makes it bad are the people that live there!

It could be wonderful if the people were a little bit more respectful toward their own city.

Period

Maria wrote: The only reason why I'm writing this blog is b/c I'm sick and tired of reading BS. First of all I would like to explain once and for all why Italian landlords charge Americans there full budget rent. When the italians rent a place they rent it just like it is... the landlord dosn't paint the house and dosn't put in kitchen cabinets, dosn't take care of the yard, dosn't have to put an alarm system in the house, dosn't have to put AC, dosn't put in fans nor light fixtures in the house... No electric gate if it dosn't have one and dosn't pay for garbage tax, condon fee and water. All these things that a landlord dosn't have to do and dosn't have to pay for the italians they do for the Americans... besides all the documents that they need to get ready for the housing office so they can rent the house.. and that goes from 300 euro to 600 euro.  In the future if something breaks in the house the landlord needs to fix it... for the Americans... Italians that rent a place need to pay the maintanace of the house... something breaks they pay... Americans don't. Second.. I want to talk about the electic and gas bill... the only reason why it is so high is b/c the bills are on your name so the electric and gas companies know that you are American... so I sugest you keep the bills on the landlords name once you rent a place.... Third but not least is the areas where someone should look for a  house... There isn't  a perfect safe area where nothing happens... it's just luck! Maria was talking about Caserta... well let me talk about it... Every year innocent people are victims of a shootout on the streets of Caserta...  2 examples are: in 2008 6 people died just because the camorra wanted a guy dead... and b/c of that 6 people died... 2009 same thing 1 dead... Breakins are everywhere... Bad things happen everywhere not only here in Italy but even in the States...  It's just a matter of luck. So please don't be hipocrites! Naples is a beautiful place to live...  you will not have another chance to live in a fabulous house once you get back to the states since the rent comes right out of your pockets... A 4 bedroom villa with 2 bathrooms big kitchen and living room and huge yard... For most of you Americans it's only a dream come true.... enjoy Naples! If you all hate it then leave... Naples is probably too good for you...

So the fact that they are jacking up our electric/gas bills based soley on our names isn't bs? It isn't something that should be brought up? Well poo on me for having such an "American name" it is entirely my fault that nobody briefs us when we inprocess that if we don't have an Italian name we should go through our landlords to get our bills through them and to expect the NEX bill pay service to rip us off...woah boy I'm so glad you posted this so we can all see how ignorant we are.

You really think they need to jack up our rent from the avg 300 a month for an Italian to at least 1280 a month for possible repairs that, btw take an average of 2-4 weeks to get done, plus the a/c's that normally are already installed as we usually rent in a place that was previously occupied by an American. And since you seem so up to date on all this good stuff, how much does it cost to pay the garbage tax, codon fee, and water?

I agree that Naples can be a beautiful place to live, and I really get along great with my landlord and family. However too much of Naples is dirty, overloaded with stray animals and trash, not to mention a all of the corruption. Sorry if that makes it too good for me.

I'm sure if most of us weren't military we would take the option to leave early...I know I would have.

Oh, forgot to mention I live in a 1 bedroom "guest house" and pay the max 1280 a month, where-as I was living in a much larger apartment in the states that had every convenience that I could ask for including everything but extended cable (more than just the basic channels) and electricity for $500 a month. You're quite right though, freezing in the winter and cooking in the summer because the houses have so little insulation that it's pointless to run a heater or a/c, that is definatly better living.

Ok, here is my take.  There are some lovely places in Italy and the houses/villa can be beautiful "however" they are huge and there is a lot of wasted space in these homes which takes up a lot of heat trying to keep something so big warm in the winter.  Come summer if you live where there is a nice breeze would be wonderful to throw open the windows to cool the house if we were not afraid of being robbed.  Yes!robbery happens everywhere in the world but the 21 years I lived in the UK and the 15 I lived in the USA I was NOT robbed once.  We were here about 4 months when we were broken into, asleep in our beds!!  You are charged in the USA and the UK on the area you live and how many bedrooms you wish to rent NOT on your income.  Most rentals come with either water or cable and trash pick up.  What you pay to rent is clearly written out in the agreement before you move into a place, there are no hidden fees or charges.  Usually you will pay first and last months rent which covers any damages you have done yourself and if you are your landlord have a disagreement then there are laws which protect and will listen to both sides, NO surprise bills of thousands of dollars months after moving out!

And the laws here which are supposed to protect us...hmmm! We could spend days on how corrupt they are!

I'm an American-Italian Landlord! I have been renting to the americans for 40 years now and let me say that all of you are IGNORANT!!! Every frickin American that I have rented in years have  destroyed my properties... You guys talk about rispect? You guys don't have rispect for anyone besides yourselfs!!! Joanna all of the housing contract include water, trash and condon fee. (Like I said about the robberies it's just luck!) How much does it cost? It dipends where you live.. but let's talk about what I pay for example: For the trash every year I pay 650 euro, For the water I pay from 500 to 700 euro every 3 months of course it dipends on how much water the American uses up and the condon fee I pay 500 euro a month. So if you know how to count.. tell me if i should or shouldn't have an american pay 1.500 euro a month... Without counting all the damages you all make in a house... from the screens to the walls to the floors and the yard! Every Three years i need to put in knew screens because they are all torn apart.. Last year i had to change the doors and i had to buy flowers and roses for my garden because they never took care of it nor would let me take care of it! You know how much everything cost me? Almost 4 thousand euro for the doors. 1 thousand for the flowers and oh my god 3 thousand for the screens every year!! Why?? Because you guy's don't know how to behave in a house that is not yours!!! Oh and Maria??? I've lived in Caserta much longer than you have and believe me i know how it works around there... You should be reading more newspapers so you can be more informed before you even post your "advices". Talking about Aversa and Gricignano 3 Americans moved out because of the electricity bill... so Maria if you don't know what the hell is going on DON"T SAY ANYTHING!! Corruption, Camorra, Mafia, Sacra corona unita and 'Ndrangheta you guys really think that there are only here in Italy??? WOW you all a very stupid then. You guys are so presumptuous!!! You think you know everything... you arive in a place and know what everything happens and why.... dosn't take 3 or 4 years to know everything about a place... you need a life time... you need  inform yourself everyday through the newspapers and the news... besides talking to people to confornt the information you get.... It's nice to talk crap when you don't know anything... SHAME ON YOURSELVES!!!! The only reason why i rent to American's is to pay my yearly taxes... that's all but to tell you the truth most of the landlords including myself don't think it's worth renting Americans anymore... the place where you guys belong?? Is on that shitty base in Gricignano!

Ummm...and that's why this place is so horrible.  And WE'RE the ignorant ones. Enough said.  Trust me-- we would love to go back but theres this little thing called a military contract that can't be broken.

Maria, you can voice your opinion without using those words...

Thanks

I have a couple questions. 

If we are so bad then why are there 10x the amount of italians at military/american celebrations at Carney Park?  And why are they lined up the first saturday of every month to take DISCARDED items at the thrift store.  Why, when we meet italians the first thing they ask us is if we can get them on base?  Because its so terrible?  Is it terrible because the local public works dept. that we have no control over doesnt pick up our trash? 

And come on, there are many people here who volunteer out in the community at animal shelters and other places.  A LOT of people are trying to contribute here.  The fact is, it is culturally different than what we are used to.  We can't fathom someone holding a baby while driving, cutting us off  simply to get one car length ahead.  I know sometimes I get frustrated when I walk into a store or restaurant and cant use my debit card.  And the closest ATM is the next town over. 

Housing is a whole other issue.  I disagree that we don't have the opportunity to live in the same kids of houses in the states.  Actually, we've have always lived in just as big of a place, and never ever had a problem with mold and water pressure and power outages and wires catching fire...like we do here. 

It is about tolorance.  Culturally, we are different, but we are both here and need to be tolorant of the other.  There is no need to disrespect or throw accusations around because it takes away from the point you are trying to make.  Because I, like i'm sure many others did, simply shook my head and laughed at the message. 

Is it because I said the I word? Well that word only means when someone isn't informed.. everyone is ignorant somehow... or is it because I said the S word.... Well you can't say that the base is a beautiful place to live in or am I wrong?... b/c if I was then why don't all the Americans go live there? Or is it because I said they were presumptuous.. well they are... someone who thinks that they know everything they are... So I'm sorry but i don't think I've insulted anyone more they have insulted me.. I wouldn't even dream in writing a post if i weren't informed on everything I say or write... I'm not like certain people that say things just because others do. It's not in my nature to use bad words nor curse...

The only reason why italians go to the 4th of July party on Carney park or want to get on the base it's because the are curious that's all... As soon as they know I'm American that's when they start making questions or ask me to bring them on base etc... I'm glad that I made your day... but the truth is that deep inside you know that everything I've written is true. You talk about tolerance?? I've been tolerant for 40 yrs until 2 days ago when I started ready the posts that all of you have written... I really think that you guys don't know what you are talking about... In the States you all have been lucky to find appartments with no mold or power outage nor wires catching on fire... b/c i do remember what is like to live in the states... my brothers do... my family that still lives in the states all they do is complain about the living situation and what they have to go through with there house (on rent). There is no local depth... So going back to my first post... You just have to be lucky on the house that you find!

The only reason why I reply is to make you understand certain things... but I know I'm just waisting my time.

I just wanted to say after reading Maria's post I am SO VERY thankful for the landlords that I have! They are amazing and have welcomed us into their home and call us their American family! We share so much time together and our kids play together all of the time. Maria I am very sorry that you have had people mess up your house but we are not all like that! I have a maid and a gardner that come every week. We keep this house like it is our own. Most of the families here do the same!

If you have families that are messing up your house call housing and report them. I will say I'm thankful that you are not my landlord! I could not pay someone money that hates Americans. My family loves it here and are thankful for all of the Italians that have treated us so well!

Good Post Angel!  That is exactly what needs to be done, find the GOOD here and be thankful for it, because as Maria has made crystal clear, there is a lot of bad.   You are lucky to have a good landlord, and Im sure it helps that you are a great tenant!

If fixing everything the American that is in my house breaks and not reporting them because they pay me the rent always 15 or 20 days late and seeing that my house is filthy and that you can smell the stink from outside makes me a bad landlord then what does that make him or her? If I do or don't report them makes me a bad landlord? Is that how it works in your world? All that I'm saying is that there is good and bad everywhere... read my first post... I hate Americans? I am American but i am also Italian and I do not like it when they talk bad about my country specially if they don't know what there talking about... and when the States is no better nor worse!

Oh gosh please NAH tell me how to change my screename I'm embarassed from the other Maria who read my post about how bad is the "around base area" and since she's a landlord she's making a big effort to keep "her job".

Alas, we are one step closer to having spell check!!! Great update, NAH admin!

  Just moved out of a "wonderful landlord's" home and found that the relationship only lasted as long as the rent money flowed. (Far from the first time this situation happened, as I am told by a lady in public svc. and is married to an Italian.) And, to our very happy surprise, we really like living on base. I fought moving here tooth and nail b/c I figured it would be like a prison-- despite what great things I was told by many friends-- and even the movers! Yes! Finally, I have peace and a safe place for my kids to play along with all the other conveniences that come with base life.

  I want to add that we, too, did our best to take care of our home like it was our own. Things break, bottom line, whether you own or rent. (What's that joke about a boat being a hole that you pour money into?) Add small active kids and things that are very different from houses in the States and ...more things are bound to happen! (OK, I have the calcium thing licked. Now, can someone please tell me a good way to clean marble???)

 I've never rented a home, so it seems to me that the landlords do pretty well, even with making repairs. I know that the Italian regular lease agreement works much better for the landlord's rights, but, then again, he's/she's making only half of what he is when renting to an American/NATO, etc.From experience I can say, though, that we've rented in a few different areas and we've never had anywhere near the problems that we've had with the home that we leased here. Please keep in mind landlords and potential tennants, that there's no peace or enjoyment of living on the economy when the home that you're renting is constantly having problems and workers are in and out (them out--smoking a cigarette and their mess in-- and left behind for you to clean up when they leave.) 

  And, as for our contract, there's a clause on it about health, but none about safety. Things that make you go "Hmmm..." 

 Yes, it is too bad that we are all not better informed. It's very easy, after finding out, firsthand or otherwise, how much the kindness of the foreigners here ends up in their getting ripped off, to put up a wall, and bide our time until we get out of here. 

Also, sometimes, you simply don't know what you don't know...

 Wouldn't it be great if the outcome of this post subject was some kind of way to help landlords/tennants work together to have harmony?        

Maria, I sympathize with you for having some tenants who are not so careful when renting.  I am sure you get that with Italians also.  I know you said you had to spend money after someone moves out for repairs "however" Blinds/screens (carpeting, in the USA) floors and walls will all have sufficient and normal wear and tear after a few years living in the same place.  I am sure blinds and screens only have a certain life span and with continuous use would need to be replaced after a few years. If renting to families with children your floors are bound to get scuffed and walls dirty.  We have been in the same place for 6 years and when we leave they the walls will need to be re-painted, there are scuffs on the floor and the blinds have already been replaced twice through out, our refrigerator once along with the dishwasher and dryer. We have had one flood and our A/C and heat has broken down several times.  As far your garden, you should write it into your contract for who ever rents from you they have to tend the garden, if not they have to allow you to...simple! You can say if you allow animals or not as they could add to possible damages.

Maria we are not all IGNORANT!!! as you so eloquently put it, and you do have a choice NOT to rent to Americans.  I do believe though the Italians continue to do so is because they know they can get a substantial amount of rent from us. If we don't pay all you have to do is go to the commands for retribution, you know we can't do a runner on rent or bills and we are a safe bet they will get paid on time.  Also most of the time we are given washers, dryers, fridge etc so that is one less thing landlords do not have to supply OR fix.  At the end of the day who would you rather rent to an Italian paying 350 Euro or an American paying 1200 or more Euro a month.  Even with damage you are getting well paid!!

Last night I forgot to add...

You guys talk so bad about Italy but as far as I know ghetto in the States (and amost every city has one) it's worse than ghetto here.

Now you are living and working in the ghetto, and that's a matter of fact, so why don't you pick one of the town I listed in one of my previous post (even if they are farther from where you work) and then you tell me what do you think of Campania and Italians.

Please, don't blame on Italians if your government has built your base and support site in the ghetto.

I'm sure it would have been even worse if the base was in an American ghetto.

I tried to be impartial and write helpful posts, as I always do, with people who are in needs but I'm really disappointed reading your posts against Italy and Italians.

That's just not fair.

Lol, most American bases are located in or near the "ghetto" of the cities. I agree that most larger American cities do have a "ghetto" however that is usually an easily avoidable section of town which most US military members choose not to rent it, because as it goes, most of our bases are located near the ghetto so live a little further from the base and you're better off.

I really don't think that we are the ignorant ones here, you claiming stake in both Italian and American life makes you think you're an expert on both, how silly is that?

I'm really well off considering a lot of other members who didn't get as "lucky" as I did when choosing a house. I've been doing my best to enjoy this assignment, taking advantage of travel and seeing the better parts of Italy. I just know that if ever given the option to move back to Naples I'll have to say no, I'd rather get out of the military and go live in the ghetto of my hometown, because while there is crime at least it's not corrupt, and the people in the area know where to throw their trash :-D

to the maria who is the landlord demeaning our american culture and ways of life...give me your lastname. If you feel as though you tenants have been damaging your property THEN QUITE COMPLAINING AND REPORT THEM. that's part of your job as a responsible landlord. In america it isn't by happen stance that we find an apt or a house without mold infestations or faulty wiring. it's the LAW. you can't pass a housing (not referring to military housing.) inspection with those previous mentioned items. i understand you don't like to hear people complain but what do you think you are on here doing. you are complaining just as much as the next. you are not doing anything to help change peoples (americans, nato workers) opinions about the areas in which they live. you are perpetuating the hate. you say everyones ignorant than please note that you are too. im going to clue you in on some American ways of life you won't be able to comprehend because you grew up living here..

1. We value different things such as going to the grocery store at 8 am ON BASE!!!!!!!
2. Time does really exist. when we say 1400 we mean 1400 not 1615, 1735...you seem to think that just because you see a friend on the street you stop and talk (in the middle of the road) and when you arrive 3 hours late to fix our fridge or our stove.....yeah were going to be pissed.
3. we are used to people reprimanding their children when they have hurt ours. NOT IGNORING THE FACT THAT YOUR PRETEEN CHILD JUST SHOVED THE HELL OUT OF MY 3 YEAR OLD FOR NO REASON AND THE ONLY THING YOU SEE IS US (AMERICANS) GETTING MAD AND YELLING. well sorry...no im not sorry because if it had been reversed you would have gone off a bridge....


it's about respect. where im from  respect is EARNED not GIVEN. you need to watch what you say and where you say it. because as soon as i get your lastname i WILL REPORT YOU TO THE HOUSING OFFICE.. WE AMERICAN'S DON'T WANT TO RECEIVE SERVICES FROM AN ABRASIVE, SELF RIGHTEOUS, WOE IS ME, NARROW MINDED, FALSELY INFORMED, NO CLUE HAVING, MONEY GRUBBING, IGNORANT  person or persons like you.

KICK ROCKS LADY!!!!!!!!!

kim wrote: Lol, most American bases are located in or near the "ghetto" of the cities. I agree that most larger American cities do have a "ghetto" however that is usually an easily avoidable section of town which most US military members choose not to rent it, because as it goes, most of our bases are located near the ghetto so live a little further from the base and you're better off. I really don't think that we are the ignorant ones here, you claiming stake in both Italian and American life makes you think you're an expert on both, how silly is that? I'm really well off considering a lot of other members who didn't get as "lucky" as I did when choosing a house. I've been doing my best to enjoy this assignment, taking advantage of travel and seeing the better parts of Italy. I just know that if ever given the option to move back to Naples I'll have to say no, I'd rather get out of the military and go live in the ghetto of my hometown, because while there is crime at least it's not corrupt, and the people in the area know where to throw their trash :-D

I know where american bases are located and most people (like me and my husband) choose houses miles away from them.

Now I just wonder: why instead of complaining you don't look for safer and nicer area as you do in the States.

And I'm sorry Kim but I have to completely disagree with the statement that ghetto in the States is better than Italian just because people know where to throw the trash.

Please, if I had to choose between the 2 I'd prefer trash in the streets than every day murders and drugs. About corruption, believe me you have the option to choose to not being involved and stay away from it.

I want to underline again that my thoughts are thousand of miles away from Maria's (the landloard) and I (and most of Italian) don't deserve your accusations.

Like I have said in one of my posts... everyone is Ignorant somehow and that includes me! I did not mean to use that word as an offense but just to underline that most of the things that go on in this country are really hard to understand and to now what exactly is going on... so I really don't think it's fair to judge and to hate a place just because people give out incorrect information, specially if the person who hears this information just takes it for good without even gathering information for themselves....

The problem that I have with my tenants won't be solved just by reporting them... housing really dosn't care.. That would only get things worse... trust me in the past I have reported and the only thing that happened was that the tenant left a really bad letter of reccomendation... With that letter it just makes it difficolt for me to rent... So if I report him housing won't do anything, the tenant with get very mad and our relationship will just get worse... so all I have to do is keep quite and smile while my property goes to hell...

All that I have read was complaints about the areas and Italians... You can only judge people when you are better then them at least that's my opinion....

Oh and I grew up in the states so I do know how it is living there...

Sorry, I think there was a miscommunication...

What was I accusing you of? I wasn't stating that just because they know where to throw their trash they are better, just stating that in my opinion the "gettos" in the states are better then the situation of Naples (just of Naples, not of Italy, I love Italy and I can see the grime covered good of Naples).

I know I would be a bit better off being dropped in a city in the states because I'd be able to find the ghetto and know how to avoid going there so I don't get mixed up in anything, or wind up in the middle of something I don't want to be a part of. Naples doesn't seem to have those kind of boundaries, there is so much bad intermingled in with the good of the city that it is hard to distinguish where to avoid, or what to avoid doing. You could try to blame it on culture shock, but I haven't had this issue with any other city that I've visited, including other parts of Italy, Spain, UK, Germany, Korea. Naples is the only place I've been to that I am so on edge because I don't know how to distinguish the bad parts from the good. Even living on my landlord's property, in what I think may be a "good area" I still worry that somone may break in my house. I've never felt so I'll at ease in my own home before, it's not a good thing and is the main factor in why I dislike Naples.

I've been making the best of it that I can and will continue to for the last year I've got  (only 400 days to go!) With any luck I'll get another Europe base so I can get a better feel for living overseas, you know, not worrying that when I get back from vacation my house will be empty and no one will have "seen anything"...

Unfortunately, as Americans in Italy you really don't know any better whether you are being taken advantage of until AFTER the fact. I have read and re-read the postings on here and BOTH sides have equal points being made. There are those that would like nothing more than to stay on base and feel "protected" from the fear of the outside, based on what others have told them or experienced. Not everyone's experiences are the same, obviously. Americans have a saying that goes: "One bad apple ruins the bunch?" Well, couple that saying and belief with a multitude of landlords who do, and lets be honest, many of the landlords have taken more than their fair share and given a bad name and reputation to those that would treat others rightly. It isn't fair that the few should ruin it for the rest, but that goes for Americans as well. A lot of Americans have an attitude of entitlement, and that is not fair to those who are here longer and get out more than those who stay ON the base and hardly leave it. Yet those same people still have a negative attitude towards the outside and spread that negativity to others as if it were fact and not just a matter of opinion. 

BTW I changed my screename, LOL i didn't like to get confuse with the other Maria (the landloard) Thanks NAH admin.

I can understand why Maria is upset.  Generally, Italians apply this "tribal rule" to life, "We (Italians) can talk about the not so nice side of Napoli and Neopolitans, but you can't"!

The truth is, if the Neopolitan landlord couldn't charge the American tenant more, why would they "deal" with us, cultural curiosity, yea right, that's an interresting way of describing what goes on here.  There is always an angle when dealing with (these) people.  For the Nepul, nothing is an accident, life is a stage, hands are used for grand gestures, mouths are used to add meaning empty words.  They know that renting to an O5 is better than renting to an E5.  In fact, they'll specifically ask for senior officers, this is what we call, "cutting down the angle" and leving nothing to chance. 

If Maria feels so strongly about Americans, why would she continue to rent to them.  I would say to her, go ahead, rent to a Neopolitan family, (4 generations in one 3 bedroom house), and then you can chase after then each week for your money...we Americans may not be perfect, but at the very least give us credit for not trying to pay our rent with a 6 rabbits, some old wine, and some tires off a volvo.